Igniter interchange experiment.

[Guest]

Interesting what comes to light when you talk to people. As I've recently posted, I'm in need of an igniter for the project 83/550. While I think I've found one, I'm intrigued that there doesn't seem to be other alternatives or plug in aftermarket boxes.

Over the weekend I've been tracking down a "rumour" that the box from 80s or 90s 600F Katanas would work. So today I trotted off to my pro wrench and after rumaging around in the igniter bin for half an hour I found one. I felt fat and happy.......but not for long Bryan burst my bubble. With his 20+ years of repair knowledge and experience He tells me the 88 and newer igniters were indeed re engineered, use a different signal generator and have vastly different ignition curves programmed in.So it looks like that myth is shot down. Bummer.

Not to send me away unhappy, he went on to mention that boxes from 400 (4 cylinder of course)through possibly 1000 from 83 on all should work. The pin outs need to be confirmed and they may not plug right in but there is no reason to suppose they won't work. He recalled that a few years back someone did indeed do this with a 750 box but he was fuzzy on exact details. A few ofthe guys here and on other boards have suggested the same thing.

So with an 83 750 in the garage, it behooves me to check in to this further but being the (now) smart guy that I am, I'll need to get another 750 box to play with. For the time being I can chart the pin outs.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Cheers,
Spyug

[Mith]

I'll be following this thread to see what you learn. I'm not in need of an ignitor at this point but it does concern me that they scarce. I've downloaded BikeCliffs ignitor PDF for the GS1000 so that if mine ever goes bad 'maybe' one of these might work. http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...0G_Ignitor.pdf

I figure I could make a printed circuit board and buy the components a lot less expensively than buying a replacement if I could even find one.

[hjfisk]

Interesting what comes to light when you talk to people. As I've recently posted, I'm in need of an igniter for the project 83/550. While I think I've found one, I'm intrigued that there doesn't seem to be other alternatives or plug in aftermarket boxes.

Over the weekend I've been tracking down a "rumour" that the box from 80s or 90s 600F Katanas would work. So today I trotted off to my pro wrench and after rumaging around in the igniter bin for half an hour I found one. I felt fat and happy.......but not for long Bryan burst my bubble. With his 20+ years of repair knowledge and experience He tells me the 88 and newer igniters were indeed re engineered, use a different signal generator and have vastly different ignition curves programmed in.So it looks like that myth is shot down. Bummer.

Not to send me away unhappy, he went on to mention that boxes from 400 (4 cylinder of course)through possibly 1000 from 83 on all should work. The pin outs need to be confirmed and they may not plug right in but there is no reason to suppose they won't work. He recalled that a few years back someone did indeed do this with a 750 box but he was fuzzy on exact details. A few ofthe guys here and on other boards have suggested the same thing.

So with an 83 750 in the garage, it behooves me to check in to this further but being the (now) smart guy that I am, I'll need to get another 750 box to play with. For the time being I can chart the pin outs.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Cheers,
Spyug

[ 400 (4 cylinder of course)through possibly 1000 from 83]
Not sure why he said 4cyl. they are a wasted spark system also, only 2 coils and 2 cyl. fire together so a twin may work also. Does your 550 have a mechanical advance or is it electronic built into the igniter?

[Ranger]

Well if a 700 would work for some reason, I could help.

[spyug]

Thanks guys. The 550 (83) doesn't have a mechanical advance, it built into the igniter so I don't think anything prior to 83 will work although I just don't know. As mentioned, from 88 on the boxes were definitely changed and the signal generators as well.

Tonight, I'm planning on having a close look at my 750 . I figured this is the best place to begin as the schematics in the manuals can be a bit confusing. The signal generators in th 550 could be different as well since they are supposedly smaller in size and layout than other models or so I'm led to believe.

I would think a 700 box could work as its essentially the same as the 750 box I would think. I may take you up on the offer Ranger...thanks.

Lots I still don't know but I'm determined to figure something out. I'm not savvy enough to build something myself so I have to work with whats out there. I really can't believe that something couldn't be cobbled up. We'll see.

Thanks for all the interest and support.

cheers all,
Spyug

[spyug]

Well the more we learn, the more we don't know.

From examination of my 83 750 and referral to the schematics is is obvious that the 750 box is not going to work. At least not with the stock 550 signal generators. The 550 has 3 leads coming from them the 750 has 4.. Now it may be possible to switch generators but I haven't been able to check that yet.

On another note, I had been referred to Boyer Bransden in England as a source for an aftermarket ignition and sent them an e-mail a few days ago. I received their reply today and it contained some more frustrating information:

a) They may or may not have a box and signal generator kit that would fit but I have to provide some dimensions on the signal generator plate installed. It is very likely that I will have to do some monkeying to get things fitted.

b) They warn that these bikes were notorious for having unstable charging systems that often produced over voltages which easily burned out the stock igniters.Although not stated, I got the feeling their box may be even more vulnerable to over voltage so I might be taking a chance if the charging system is not rock steady. How am I supposed to check that without a running engine?

So now I have to do some measuring. If the stock signal generator assembly from the 750 would fit, then it still might be a possibility.

My preference is for using used but stock Suzuki components and I will continue to try and figure this out but if I can't get anywhere that way then it may be down to the aftermarket.

The journey continues.

cheers,
Spyug

[koolaid_kid]

I bit the bullet last year and installed a Dyna S ignition. Replaced both the signal generator and the igniter with one part. For your bike, you would also have to install a mechanical advance unit from an earlier model. Mine was mechanical from the factory so it was easy.

[spyug]

[QUOTE][Replaced both the signal generator and the igniter with one part. For your bike, you would also have to install a mechanical advance unit from an earlier model.(QUOTE]

Thanks. I was looking at that idea as well but my stumbling block was the bit about the mechanical advancer. I haven't been able to find any information on that part or the modifications needed to install it in my bike. From the sparse amount I did read, it seems that due to the small size of the engine block casting on that side, its not possible to reinstall the cover when the mod is done either. I'm sure I could overcome that somehow but for now it seemed the easier route to go with a similar type igniter and possibly signal generator from another Suzuki. I could be wrong.

Does anyone have any more information on this type of modification?

Cheers,
spyug

[koolaid_kid]

I found this thread, in which it appears someone has done something similar. You might want to ask them...

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=172290&highlight=550+dyna

[JEEPRUSTY]

SOmme Yamaha igniters look suspiciously like Suzuki.
Down to the same size box and the Kokusan Denki on the label.

Of course the advance curve and all the other stuff is different I imagine.

[spyug]

Thanks but if you read through the thread it seems he didn't go ahead with the mod.

The Dyna S mod would be a nice solution but again without any information on the advancer mechanism its a no starter it seems.

The Boyer Bransden folk seem a bit interested in helping with a solution so I'll see what they can come up with. It would be nice if you could just drop in a box but I guess that's not going to be possible, at least in terms of an aftermarket part.

There are lots of OEM boxes out there from the other manufacturers but, as you note, they can all be quite different in setup and performance. What we need is some kind of igniter "interchange list" or at least a listing of the igniters and their programming. That would make life simpler for sure.

For the time being we are left with research and testing to hopefully find the solution.

Stay tuned friends.
Spyug

[rustybronco]

b) They warn that these bikes were notorious for having unstable charging systems that often produced over voltages which easily burned out the stock igniters.Although not stated, I got the feeling their box may be even more vulnerable to over voltage so I might be taking a chance if the charging system is not rock steady. How am I supposed to check that without a running engine?

Supply power to the replacement igniter Via a separate battery until you are sure your charging system checks out okay.