Technical Terminology

[suzukizone]

Granted that I am such a non-tech person that so many terms & concepts are Greek to me, & that it would be silly to expect that everytime something not expressed in plain street english is written the writer cannot stop & insert a translation. I still find often the posters, & those great senior knowledgeable ones I rely on, can lay out some very important information that I just can't grasp.

While I don't expect that GS Resources is responsible for educating the non-techies here, I do find that even when I try to research some of the tech stuff, I still feel like I missed what was going on?

Am I alone?

If so ignore me, I'll stumble on.

If not, I wonder if there is a way to have some primer material available for permanent reference. For me especially the electrical tech info & terms are daunting but I see responses by those who are clearly grasping it. Trying to, inpaarticular, absorb the chats about different R/R issues & why different types are better/worse etc.

Anyway, I realize I'm rambling. If I'm off here, just tell me & I'll humbly go on with my life. I would also volunteer as a test dummy to see if such a set of data is clear.

Thanks for listening,

DH

 

[rustybronco]

Kind Sir,

If there is any subject you can not grasp, please ask for clarification. I believe most people on this board would go to great lengths to ensure you are able to grasp the subject matter.

Now about the R/R subject matter. One of the issues that plague the GS charging systems are corroded connections (a high resistance to current flow). Probably the easiest way for the non technical person to grasp the concept, is to think of water flow though a pipe. If you have no resistance to the flow of water, it's the same as no resistance to electron flow. If you have high 'resistance' you will have a reduced flow of water out of the end of the pipe.

To see a resistor in action, look no further than your toaster. The coils you see glowing red are resistors, well chosen for their resistance values, but resistors none the less. If you use too low of a resistance value (numerically low), you'll blow a fuse or burn up the toasters wiring. Too high a resistance and you won't be doing any heating. The same goes with the wiring connections on a bike. With a low a resistance value, you'll supply all the current the wiring's capable of delivering. Too high a resistance value and nothing will be coming out of the wire to operate the device connected (lamps, ignitors, ect.). Just right and the connection will act like that toaster of yours and melt the connection.

I'll see If I can find the time to help you understand the difference between a series and a shunt style regulator.

 

[OLDENUFF]

Kind Sir,


I'll see If I can find the time to help you understand the difference between a series and a shunt style regulator.

I would be interested in that too.

 

[tkent02]

Why is basic electricity not taught in kindergarten? It would make all of this so much easier.

Seriously, spend a few hours in the library or on the internet learning a little bit about how electricity works, the lights and starters and things on these bikes are very simple.

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/electricity.htm

 

[suzukizone]

Kind Sir,

If there is any subject you can not grasp, please ask for clarification. I believe most people on this board would go to great lengths to ensure you are able to grasp the subject matter.

Now about the R/R subject matter. One of the issues that plague the GS charging systems are corroded connections (a high resistance to current flow). Probably the easiest way for the non technical person to grasp the concept, is to think of water flow though a pipe. If you have no resistance to the flow of water, it's the same as no resistance to electron flow. If you have high 'resistance' you will have a reduced flow of water out of the end of the pipe.

To see a resistor in action, look no further than your toaster. The coils you see glowing red are resistors, well chosen for their resistance values, but resistors none the less. If you use too low of a resistance value (numerically low), you'll blow a fuse or burn up the toasters wiring. Too high a resistance and you won't be doing any heating. The same goes with the wiring connections on a bike. With a low a resistance value, you'll supply all the current the wiring's capable of delivering. Too high a resistance value and nothing will be coming out of the wire to operate the device connected (lamps, ignitors, ect.). Just right and the connection will act like that toaster of yours and melt the connection.

I'll see If I can find the time to help you understand the difference between a series and a shunt style regulator.

Thanks rustybronco, sure, I gets the part about the resistance & connectors. MOFSET, FET & other terms though seem to flow like good electricity but I understand neither:
!) What they is.
2) What their differences mean to me in simple(like me!) english.
3. How do I know which R/R are from the Shindengen (sp??) family I should be cleaving to?

I mean those are just some samples floating in my head.

I realize the gentle kindness of those who are more clearheaded than me is available & I've been helped more times than I can count. I was hoping to learn so I and the confused others reading the info posted who come up on these terms, like rabbits on a poorly lit road, might find a glossary/dictionary/primer/resource to learn as we go.

As an aside, yesterday I stumbled on a lengthy list of Honda & Yamaha R/R units that were deemed to be suitable replacements. I believe it was part of a thread & it took 3 separate entries to complete. Or it might have been a link to another source. Wish I had bookmarked it. If you or anyone remembers where this is I'd love to see it again.

Thanks from the ranks of those with brains which are,...dank!

DH

 

[tom203]

"like rabbits on a poorly lit road"- a good monty python skit! also excellent to improve reflexes!

Trust me, the less you know about Mosfets the better life will seem. You need to conserve brainpower for more important tasks.

 

[spyug]

For understanding the bike's electrical systems this is what you need:

http://www.amazon.ca/Motorcycle-Electrical-Systems-Troubleshooting-Repair/dp/0760327165

Totally neophyte friendly with lots of diagrams,charts and pictures. There are also books out there on the bikes mechanical systems. I believe Haynes puts out a comprehensive one that covers everything from steering geometry to fuel injection. Everything you need to know but are too afraid to ask.

Seriously, if you don't follow something just ask (after doing a little archive search, of course). there are lots of us with tons of mechanical/electrical experience that still need to ask questions so no shame in that.

Good luck with your studies.

spyug

 

[suzukizone]

Technical Terminology

Well thanks for the encouragement, I know if you could see the inside of my ADD skull you wouldn't be that optimistic. I thought I'd try to get a handle on some of this. Went to Wikipedia, punched in "MOSFET" & "FET".

I started to read it, I barfed & now have to clean the rug AND learn about electrics.

Well I'd still like to put in one thing I learned from a long stint with retail that actually made sense. There was a mantra;

Do not mention a feature unless you explain the benefit.

I sold way more equipment once I got better at that & was surprised that except for the rabidly technical it never felt like talking down to anyone. Just a thought, if you smarter folk could do it a bit more I'll promise to try to study up on my science & technical jargon.

Hey look!,....there's another rabbit in the road.
DH

 

[rustybronco]

Who said we were smart? experienced maybe, but smart? I'd take issue with that statement.

A FET is very similar in operation to an old triode vacuum tube. The Field Effect Transistor uses the 'gate' to control the flow of electrons from source to drain (cathode to anode in a vacuum tube). Think of a gatekeeper in a fence line; say the sheep want to go from one pasture to the other, if you vary the gate you can admit or repel the sheep from one pasture to the other.

 

[tom203]

Well thanks for the encouragement, I know if you could see the inside of my ADD skull you wouldn't be that optimistic. I thought I'd try to get a handle on some of this. Went to Wikipedia, punched in "MOSFET" & "FET".


Hey look!,....there's another rabbit in the road.
DH

Don't just read about them - get some to play with like I did a while back and have some real fun! Man, they can get real HOT ( I like frying electronic stuff ), so get some oven mitts and a fire extinguisher as a backup plan.

 

[suzukizone]

Technical Terminology

Well in the end I traded the long term quest for technical knowledge for short term electro-erotic satisfaction. I shall translate THAT technical concept to plain english.

1. I managed to find the post that listed recommended R/Rs for GS bikes.

2. I searched the ebay items for a match & found a FH014AA (from 07 CBR1000RR {isn't just one "R" enough???}]. The seller had a near 100% rating with tens of thousands of sales & a 7 day return policy. Free shipping too. Felt that was a pretty safe bet.

3. Manned up & paid $68+ even tho some of you cats can get it for $7. I only hear about these deals but never see them so can't worry too much. I can't afford that much except when Old Roadkill has to sit DITD {dead in the shed} so cheaper than new Rick's or Electrosport.

Still don't understand the technical reason why this model is superior but feel very comfortable with the anecdotal faith of those who do. After all when I look at a loaded 747 I am very skeptical that air moving over the tops of the wings at a higher speed that the air moving over the wings's undersides can get it off the ground. Benouli's principle be damned, it doesn't make ANY sense does it??? But I believe the rumors that those monsters actually do fly.

So in reviewing the many posts it seems that it is both important that I grasp these technicalities & simultaneously unimportant that I grasp this. Makes sense to me
Thanks all you technicats out there & ride safely.

DH

 

[rustybronco]

Benouli's principle be damned, it doesn't make ANY sense does it???

Yes it does... pressure differential.

 

[suzukizone]

Technical Terminology

Yes it does... pressure differential.

Sure, scientifically it does, technically it does,....but emotionally? Nah, not to me anyway. I have flown,...I just don't believe it in my heart. I prefer to believe it was magic that got me to the west coast. On the other hand I believe I believe 7 out of 10 women prefer me to George Clooney,but......................
Thanks all again. Just waiting for the scientifically correct R/R to arrive.

DH

 

[rustybronco]

It has... That would be the series type of regulator.

 

[tkent02]

After all when I look at a loaded 747 I am very skeptical that air moving over the tops of the wings at a higher speed that the air moving over the wings's undersides can get it off the ground. Benouli's principle be damned, it doesn't make ANY sense does it??? But I believe the rumors that those monsters actually do fly.

They actually do fly, I have seen it. However, the air pressure thing is bogus. They have really huge engines and even bigger wings to smash the air into submission.

Benouli who?

 

[suzukizone]

They actually do fly, I have seen it. However, the air pressure thing is bogus. They have really huge engines and even bigger wings to smash the air into submission.

I knew it! Now if I could figure out why everyone on the other side of the planet seems to have NO idea they are walking around upside down.
DH

 

[tom203]

suzukizone said..."I searched the ebay items for a match & found a FH014AA (from 07 CBR1000RR {isn't just one "R" enough???}]. The seller had a near 100% rating with tens of thousands of sales & a 7 day return policy. Free shipping too. Felt that was a pretty safe bet"

Forget mosfets, some hondas came with auto style alternators ( adjustable field controlled by R/R )- the R/R's for these won't work with permanent magnet rotors like on your suzuki. I have no idea what kind of charging system is on a 07 cbr1000rr, but maybe somone here does.

 

[ratznfragn]

Just remember everything electrical or electronic runs on smoke.
Once you let the magic smoke out,it no longer functions.
( I KNEW that degree in electronics would come in handy one day!)

 

[suzukizone]

suzukizone said..."I searched the ebay items for a match & found a FH014AA (from 07 CBR1000RR {isn't just one "R" enough???}]. The seller had a near 100% rating with tens of thousands of sales & a 7 day return policy. Free shipping too. Felt that was a pretty safe bet"

Forget mosfets, some hondas came with auto style alternators ( adjustable field controlled by R/R )- the R/R's for these won't work with permanent magnet rotors like on your suzuki. I have no idea what kind of charging system is on a 07 cbr1000rr, but maybe somone here does.

Hey tom203,, That was a bike-R/R model specifically listed as one that would work on GS systems from a fairly detailed post I found when I searched out the topic "R/R" in forums search. I forget who the poster was at this moment but had marked some specific bikes & years that had compatible R/Rs to scavenge for a GS. That bike model-R/R model is also listed here

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff1/images/stator_compat.html

by Mr.bikecliff. Anyone else or the author of that advisory want to jump in on this? I thought I had it right.

As for MOSFET? not sure if that applies to this R/R, I had interjected that term as part of the conversation on trying to underrstand technical terms & concepts.
DH