Conventional "RACING" oil or not???

[chuck hahn]

So, what Im am gathering, is that I can run full synthetic car oil in the bikes as long as they do no have added friction modifiers. SH or SJ rating. Or just stay with the H4 Honda synthetic blend racing oil.

[rustybronco]

Chuck, I ran Amsoil 20w50 in my old 850 with no issues and it wasn't a MC specific engine oil.

[chuck hahn]

Dale...I am running Valvoline 10W40 Conventional in the GSs and have had no issues as of yet. I started the thread for finding that one stand out "superior" oil for in the Yamaha TX750. Since its a running bike..and rather rare at that..I want the most protection I can give that bikes engine and clutches. Seeing that all the old cycle mags on the bike point to the oil foaming and causing the internal problems, then thats the issue i am wanting to prevent. I guess maybe the more important way to have phrased the question is this. Are todays regular oils formulated with anti foaming agents or do I need to stick to a racing oil? Secondly, is there any real advantage as far as "racing" oil formulations VS "regular" formulations.

[rustybronco]

Dale...I am running Valvoline 10W40 Conventional in the GSs and have had no issues as of yet. I started the thread for finding that one stand out "superior" oil for in the Yamaha TX750. Since its a running bike..and rather rare at that..I want the most protection I can give that bikes engine and clutches. Seeing that all the old cycle mags on the bike point to the oil foaming and causing the internal problems, then thats the issue i am wanting to prevent. I guess maybe the more important way to have phrased the question is this. Are todays regular oils formulated with anti foaming agents or do I need to stick to a racing oil? Secondly, is there any real advantage as far as "racing" oil formulations VS "regular" formulations.

Chuck, this is my un-official / non scientific OPINION. If you want an oil that is very shear stable and SHOULD work for your intended purpose, if it were mine I would put Amsoil in it. Again this is just my OPINION from having used it in the past.

Amsoil is also going into my GS1000E when I'm finished with it.

I have no experience with brad penn to offer an opinion of it.

I don't know if you ever be able to come up with an oil that is head and shoulders above the rest as there are quite a few good oils out there...

[chuck hahn]

I understand Dale...The standout issue is the foaming cause by the counter balancers for the crank....whatever oil i use as the constant must be able to avoid this frothing action.

[Nessism]

GS engines, particularly the 8V versions, are quite durable in terms of internal wear, other than some rocker arm and cam wear on the 16V engines (particularly the 2nd generation 750). The zinc and phosphorus is what helps protect these high pressure points inside the engine, and that's why I don't recommend auto oil (about 1/3 less zinc and phosphorus than diesel oil). It's not that auto oil is going to cause your engine noticeable problems, but there may be an incremental increase in wear that will manifest itself as miles accumulate. You may never keep the bike long enough for this to become a problem, but why use auto oil when diesel engine oil is better and just as cheap?

My reference to auto oil applies to Amsoil and all auto oils. My personal belief is that Amsoil is some of the best oil going, but I'd much rather use the motorcycle or diesel engine grade in my bike compared to the auto grade.

[chuck hahn]

ED...I totally understand that from all the other posts. The ISSUE back in the day with these engines was frothing caused by the counter balancers whipping up the hot oil. I was "told" racing oil has "special anti foaming agents" added that regular conventional oils do not...I want clarification on this anti foaming stuff sspecifically. I also understand from other posts that synthetics and synthetic blends are ok also...but what about all this anti foaming technology stuff...thats the question. This is a bit of a different animal that the GS.

[rustybronco]

Chuck, the additive packages that are in today's oils are LIGHT years ahead of what was available back when that bike was made. So pick a good semi- or full synthetic oil such as Rotella 5w40 (group 3 oil) or Amsoil (group 4) and don't look back.

Other than that, I'd suggest calling one of the major oil companies and ask them for their recommendations.

[koolaid_kid]

Chuck, I looked around on the web and the general consensus is that all diesel oils contain anti-foaming agents as a matter of course.

Here is a quote from one web page: "Oil for the PowerStroke requires an anti-foaming agent to prevent the oil from aerating, which would result in poor fuel injector spray patterns and reduced power. Depending on vehicle usage, the anti-foaming agents are depleted in 3000-5000 miles."

I suggest this is true for all diesel motors, not just Ford, and the same for the oils, as all diesel engines are similar.

[rustybronco]

One more suggestion.

Take an oil sample and have it sent off to a place like Blackstone to have a baseline done on it. Then it's a simple matter to have the oil tested from time to time to use as a comparison. That should put your mind at ease.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

[chuck hahn]

This is from an article in Classic Yammy written by the guy that was involved in the actual recall and distribution of the recall kits that Yamaha did form their recalls....it explains the problem as they discovered it back then.


"Of course I also cannot recall everything that happened during those hectic days but I remember that one of our race mechanics, Rod Tingate, suspected that the problem was in the oil circulation. He cut the oil tank and glued a Perspex window on it. After running the engine it was clear that not oil, but just foam came from the return pipe.
Oil temperature was therefore the main problem, we were thinking. Only years later we realized that it was something different. Japanese Motorcycles in the early 1970’s were light years ahead of cars. But we only had “old” car-designed 4-stroke oil!
Several oil-engineers have assured me later that if modern 4-stroke motorcycle oils had been available in those years, Yamaha would not have had any recall.... And also Honda would not have had their camshaft and camchain-tensioner problems as another example. But if... does not help."

[rustybronco]

You are not an engineer, nor am I. let those who test lubricants put your mind at ease.

Send them an oil sample...

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/what-is-oil-analysis.php

Spectral exam:
In the spectral exam, we take a portion of your oil sample and run it through a machine called a spectrometer. The spectrometer analyzes the oil and tells us the levels of the various metals and additives that are present in the oil. This gives us a gauge of how much your engine is wearing. To learn more about the elements we look at and where they come from in your oil, go to our Report Explanation page.

[chuck hahn]

The oil thats in it now is the H4 Honda Racing oil Randy gave me Dale, which isnt exactly cheap stuff. And like i stated earlier, the auto parts place 2 blocks away sells whats labeled as motorcycle racing oil as well. Thing is that if special "racing" oil is just catchy words and nothing more than the smoke and mirros hype then I want to know. I can save money not only on the cost of the oil but also in not driving 30 miles round trip to the dealer for the Honda H4...see what i am saying?

[GSScoobie]

All synthetic oils are better at anti-foaming period.
With that said, use a motorcycle specific synthetic oil or Rotella synthetic and don't worry about it any longer.

[rustybronco]

I know exactly what you are saying and I understand why you want to know what you are asking us to help you with. You want a good oil with excellent anti-foaming qualities. Only testing will tell you what you need to know.

Keep in mind, most manufacturers are trying to sell a product and all those fancy terms are nothing more than that; a MARKETING term. For instance, take that Honda oil you've been referring to, it's a synthetic BLEND oil. Not a full synthetic oil. The oils we use here are also a synthetic blend. Are they better than a straight conventional oil? sure!, but by today's standards they are nothing special.

Be weary of a High priced oil with slick marketing, fancy packaging that when it really comes down to it, is nothing special...

When we first rescued her, my buddy Randy had some Honda JP4 synthetic blend that we put in.