Still overcharging!!

[crc1214]

Well now I'm trying to figure out why I'm only getting 8V at the fuel gauge wires... and my multi-meter isn't bad, I can assure you......

Here's what's up. With the battery connected to the bike, and ignition switch on, here's the V readings I get.....
.
- wire of fuel guage to + wire for fuel guage...... 8V

- term of battery to + wire for fuel guage.......8V
+ term of battery to + wire for fuel guage...... 4V

- term of battery to ground wire for fuel guage..... 0.1V
+ term of battery to ground wire for fuel guage...... 11.9V

Reading across battery terminals..... 12.44V

This is with the headlight on, and after some other testing. It's a brand new battery.

So I notice my fuel guage is technically seeing 12.0V (I can live with a .44V drop considering all the connectors in the path from the battery to these wires). But it's seeing it in wierd ways, some from the positive wire and some from the negative wire!

And it's not just the fuel guage..... rear tail light is like this too.......

What's weird is that I see a trend. The further away a connection is from the battery, I see less V from the - term of battery to + wire, and more V from the + wire of battery to + V wire. .... but in any instance it all totals up to 12 V!!
I started with the fusebox. Battery leads unplugged, I take a resistance reading from the red lead that plugs in the + terminal to the red outlet wire on the fusebox...... dead on "0". Same for the black lead that plugs in the - terminal to the black/white wire going in the fusebox. Dead on "0".

I plug the leads into the battery, turn the ignition on........

I get battery voltage minus 0.2. Where's the 0.2V at? I take a reading from - battery terminal to ground wire going to the fusebox..... there it is 0.2V!!

Here's the weird part....... when plugged in, the fuel guage and tailight, plus all other stuff function just fine. The tailight is nice and bright, the brake light is nice and bright, the headlight is bright, the signals function at proper speed and are bright........ this has me puzzled!

[rustybronco]

By fuel gauge are you talking THE gauge on the cluster or the fuel sending unit in the tank? your gauge has a resistance value, your sender has a resistance value and the wires have a resistance value, you have measured the voltage drop across two of them (wires and gauge) not the third.
when you add up all of your voltages they should add close to your battery voltage negating the resistance of the battery and connections.

see same for tail light circuit also.

does this help? 1. yes 2. no
Tee hee hee

[crc1214]

The wires I'm taking readings at are the ones that the fuel level sending unit plug into (female ends). I've got the unit unplugged, and I have the ingnition switch on.

Approx. 8V between the black/white wire and the yellow/green wire.

And the other measurements are above.

Rustybronco, it seems like we may get this figured out real soon. I await your reply!

[rustybronco]

Ok, you have measured the voltage that is normally seen by the sending unit,
your volt meter has completed the circuit and has allowed current to flow from the battery through the gauge and wires (without the sending unit) and back to the battery. if you connect the sender up and unplug the gauge and put your volt meter across the two wires to the gauge you will see where the other 4+ volts are. each item in a circuit has a resistance (wire, gauge, sender, connection(s) and battery) and a corresponding voltage drop.

did this help? 1. yes 2. no

more tee hee hee...

[argonsagas]

Ignore the readings at the fuel gauge. Part of the answer is given already, but part is that there are multiple connections and splices inside the harness and you cannot see what connects where. Several of what you would think are individual circuits have two or more splices attached, and varying wire sizes as well.

Back to the problem

15.5 volts into the battery is too high.

Add enough extra wire to your brown one to allow you to connect it into the tail light circuit on the right side of the frame.

If this does not do the job for you, replace the R/R.

[crc1214]

Yes, it helps immensely, I greatly appreciate it! .... but here's the reason i ask all this........

The popular SH-232 Honda r/r swap requires that the green "sensor" wire be hooked up to the + v wire leading to the taillight (I was originally going to splice it to the + wire that the fuel sending unit plugs into).

Well my + wire to the tail light (and to the + wire that plugs in the fuel sending unit) only has 8V running through it, so wouldn't it trick my R/R into overcharging the battery?

[crc1214]

Rustybronco, are you available to take some readings on your bike?

This would sure help ease my mind.....

I just want to see what you get from - terminal of battery to + wire of tail light (probably brown).

[rustybronco]

its hooked up to my tail light.
orange i believe. grab a switched wire (12v with key on) and hook it up.
yes i will measure if you like...

[Boondocks]

...The popular SH-232 Honda r/r swap requires that the green "sensor" wire be hooked up to the + v wire leading to the taillight (I was originally going to splice it to the + wire that the fuel sending unit plugs into)....

You are doing the wiring incorrectly. The Honda Shindengen R/R's with 6 wires are wired like this:

The 3 yellow wires go to the stator wires.
The red wire goes to the always hot battery connection.
The black (or brown) wire is the sense wire and goes to a circuit like the tail light that is on only when the ignitions switch is turned on.
The green wire is the ground wire, and should be connected to a good ground or the negative battery terminal

This might explain your overcharging.

[rustybronco]

Ok, you have measured the voltage that is normally seen by the sending unit,
your volt meter has completed the circuit and has allowed current to flow from the battery through the gauge and wires (without the sending unit) and back to the battery. if you connect the sender up and unplug the gauge and put your volt meter across the two wires to the gauge you will see where the other 4+ volts are. each item in a circuit has a resistance (wire, gauge, sender, connection(s) and battery) and a corresponding voltage drop.

SORRY my apologies to all that read my response with the fuel sender disconnected you should read at or near battery voltage there is very little current flow thrrough a volt meter. IF all connections are good!

i beat my self riding home because i couldn't correct it.

now i must take a little test.

poster is a dummy 1. yes 2.yes
poster should think 1. yes 2.yes

ok it looks like i failed.

crc1214 let me re-read to see what kind of bike and i'll THINK and post again.
(i'm home now) and in the future i will confine my answers to where do i check my oil... (poster goes and kicks his self)

[Sandy]

You are doing the wiring incorrectly. The Honda Shindengen R/R's with 6 wires are wired like this:

The 3 yellow wires go to the stator wires.
The red wire goes to the always hot battery connection.
The black (or brown) wire is the sense wire and goes to a circuit like the tail light that is on only when the ignitions switch is turned on.
The green wire is the ground wire, and should be connected to a good ground or the negative battery terminal

This might explain your overcharging.

This is absolutely correct, green is ground or negative. Yes it's alright to hook the sense wire to the white/orange, that is the main wire controlled by the ignition switch and also goes to the coils, the tail light wire will also work as well. if you wire the red directly to the battery make sure you put a fuse on that wire. You can also thank Boondocks for that one.

[argonsagas]

Agreed re the wiring arrangements.

Sandy...I do not see the value of putting a fuse on the red wire as this wire carries power TO the battery, and maintains its charge via the R/R. There is no load on it, so there is no live circuit to protect.

Enlighten me, please.

[Sandy]

Agreed re the wiring arrangements.

Sandy...I do not see the value of putting a fuse on the red wire as this wire carries power TO the battery, and maintains its charge via the R/R. There is no load on it, so there is no live circuit to protect.

Enlighten me, please.

Actually that requirement is more for the Honda R/R with the extra red wire. If you run one red to the battery and the other to the wiring harness you have effectively bypassed the main fuse. With the single red wire it is not as critical although I suppose you could have the wire rub through somewhere and cause a problem.

[Boondocks]

Case 1: Using my bike as a model, the hot wire from the R/R is normally fused in the factory wiring scheme. It is connected to the always hot solenoid terminal through the main 15 amp fuse. If the R/R or the wiring from it were to short out, it will blow the fuse before destroying the battery or anything else. Connecting the hot lead directly to the battery removes this protection.

Case 2: Some Honda R/R's have two red leads, and advice has been given to connect one lead to the normal connection on the wiring harness and the other read lead directly to the battery. Since the two red wires are on the same circuit and behave as one wire, this has an unintended result.The problem with this configuration is that the direct connection to the battery effectively bypasses the main fuse, leaving the bike with a direct unfused connection to the battery without the protection of a main fuse. With a connection like this, the main fuse can be removed from the fuse block and the bike will operate without it, without any main fuse protection.

[rustybronco]

what bothers me is the 8v to the tail light.

going to dinner i'll read the posts later crc1214.
there may be multiple problems, r/r wired wrong, connections ect.