R/R Parinoia

[GS Farmer]

After scouring this site for info [which there seems to be a wealth of] I now realize that I must have been blessed, not to have had electrical failure on my three previous GS bikes. 77 750, 79 850 80 1000. I'm almost scared to take current ride out the driveway. [81 GS 1000 G] Every thing seems to be working fine for now, but it is 26 year old 35k machine. Question being ,should I be thinking about changing out the R/R, Stator for something newer better?? You know, peremtive strike kinda thing??? And if I should ,what brand, and where?? 20 years ago, was riding with a group of five guys, all on various GS bikes, and can't remember anybody ever have ing said problems. Of course I realize that these bikes are much older now!! So, yesterday as I walked by to bike, I remember someone on this site saying take a good look at all electrical connections, especially grounds. So I pulled the battery out, side covers off looking around at wiring ect. Could'nt even find the R\R untill I pulled out the clymers manual. [Thought I should at least know where it was] Was loooking at wireing, when I saw what looked to be a ground wire, black, coming out of the wireing loom, and attatching to the front battery box housing. It was attatched between the bottom of the battery box mounting and the frame. So I took apart out of curiosity, to find that those are both painted surfaces. So I cleaned up connection as well as surfaces and reqonnected. Have no idea if that would ever affect anything or not. It just did'nt look like a good ground situation. So I get a little confused when I read about bikes with 100k and have just replaced R\R. Other question being, If the R\R fails, does it always take out stator, or vice versa?? I have a spare stator, should I be laying in a R\R?? Did an engine swap in this machine to alower mileage motor, so some of the wireing connections were apart in that proccess, but I paid no particular attention to them at that time because I was'nt aware of this particular problem. Thoughts or Ideas????

[Dave8338]

Do a voltage check on the battery terminals (think it should show 14+ volts at 5000RPMs) That is a good place to start. I myself am now going through this issue, as of last night and will be tracking everything to get it right. I hate electrical issues....HATE them!!!

[focus frenzy]

OK mine lasted well past 100K and the key is connections connections and good ground.

Suzuki (and pretty much everyone else) uses brass for the wiring connections, brass will not rust, but it does tarnish, and tarnish is a very very poor conductor.

eliminate the connectors between the R&R and the stator or replace with nice shiny gold connectors. run a separated ground wire from the R&R to the ground post of the battery.

you found one of the big causes of charging woes, the R&R works by shunting excess current to ground (why they get warm/ toasty) if it is not grounded good it can not work correctly.

several people here have done the 12 volt computer case fan mod, where you mount a computer fan (one from old power supply or rear of case are about perfect size wise) to the R&R and it blows air across the R&R helping keep them cool. Suzuki did a poor job mounting the regulator were they did on 95% of the GS as it is away from good air flow and it has to deal with engine heat.
the Katana (the bigger ones at least) have them mounted out in the open on the left side.



my foster child SV1000 also mounts the R&R were it can get fresh air, Harley mounts theirs in front of the engine.

with proper maintenance and the right mods the stock system is very reliable.

the one on my 150K mile 1000G was still charging, it had just stopped adjusting (very odd) at idle it just kept up, at highway speeds it had perfect voltage, go past K rpm and it would over charge.

the Electrosport (junk) R&R I replaced it with failed after just two months and has been replaced with a R&R from a Canadian (Ontario) 850 I discovered in a motorcycle rest home down here.

I went ahead and replaced my stator as they do get very hot and over time the insulating coating does get brittle and can eventually crack and flake causing a short, mine was still good after over 100K miles but the coating was pretty crisp.

[Dave8338]

OK mine lasted well past 100K and the key is connections connections and good ground.

Suzuki (and pretty much everyone else) uses brass for the wiring connections, brass will not rust, but it does tarnish, and tarnish is a very very poor conductor.

eliminate the connectors between the R&R and the stator or replace with nice shiny gold connectors. run a separated ground wire from the R&R to the ground post of the battery.

you found one of the big causes of charging woes, the R&R works by shunting excess current to ground (why they get warm/ toasty) if it is not grounded good it can not work correctly.

several people here have done the 12 volt computer case fan mod, where you mount a computer fan (one from old power supply or rear of case are about perfect size wise) to the R&R and it blows air across the R&R helping keep them cool. Suzuki did a poor job mounting the regulator were they did on 95% of the GS as it is away from good air flow and it has to deal with engine heat.
the Katana (the bigger ones at least) have them mounted out in the open on the left side.



my foster child SV1000 also mounts the R&R were it can get fresh air, Harley mounts theirs in front of the engine.

with proper maintenance and the right mods the stock system is very reliable.

the one on my 150K mile 1000G was still charging, it had just stopped adjusting (very odd) at idle it just kept up, at highway speeds it had perfect voltage, go past K rpm and it would over charge.

the Electrosport (junk) R&R I replaced it with failed after just two months and has been replaced with a R&R from a Canadian (Ontario) 850 I discovered in a motorcycle rest home down here.

I went ahead and replaced my stator as they do get very hot and over time the insulating coating does get brittle and can eventually crack and flake causing a short, mine was still good after over 100K miles but the coating was pretty crisp.

Thanks for the heads up...I'm not looking forward to this...........

[bonanzadave]

This is a bad connector....

I replaced it with aerospace butt splices. I monitor the charging system with this voltmeter gizmo....

Now at crusing RPM it showing 15.5 VDC. I think thats too high. My battery has always needed water several times a year. I think the excess voltage is boiling the battery. I had a factory warrenty replacement stator in 1983. This is the orig R/R.

[Steve]

BonanzaDave,

Dandy little meter, there. Are you aware that it is NOT waterproof? :shock:
No, not even water resistant.

Not to worry, though. I have had several on different bikes. Spray a few light coats of clear polyurethane on it to seal the display area and it will work much better if it happens to get wet.

Do you have power to it all the time? With the clock display at 0:00:00, it appeared at first that you might not have the red wire connected to something that is hot all the time, then I noticed that it is is 'stopwatch' mode. Don't worry about battery drain by doing that. Look at it this way...you have a digital watch? How often do you change the battery? Is your bike battery any bigger than your watch battery? Don't you think it would last a while? I have the orange wire spliced in with the tail light wire to only turn on the backlight and voltage display lights when the bike is running, but the clock display itself takes so little power, it is not noticeable. Besides, it is so handy to be able to just walk by it and see what the battery voltage is.

[salty_monk]

Mine reads 13.7V at all RPM if that helps.

I just cleaned all my connectors & put in a ground wire from RR to battery. It defo made a difference.

Dan

[bonanzadave]

BonanzaDave,


Are you aware that it is NOT waterproof? :shock:


Do you have power to it all the time?

Id be lucky to ride in the rain....Got the whole front end off waiting for 2 stinking fork bolts. Someday Ill ride her again.

Mines on a connector so I unplug it when Im not riding. Both hot wires run back to the fuse box.

[Dave8338]

Sounds like my next route of attack!! Thanks for direction to head...did I mention...that I hate electrical issues!! :shock:

[salty_monk]

I was thinking of getting a new RR Electrex or similar. Advice on here was if it ain't broke don't fix it......

Put the ground mod in though definitely & check all the connections.

Didn't think about putting a 12v fan on the RR, could be a plan.... Does seem strange to bury it under the battery box.

Dan

[Dave8338]

No doubt...every bike I've ever had, has had it mounted where it would at least pull in "some" fresh air. Oh well, they nailed the rest of the bike, I suppose that I can spot them this one.

[GS Farmer]

So after riding for an hour or so, if I could get my hand in to touch the R\R how warm\hot might it be?? If all grounds are good, should it be slightly warm, warmer than that, hot. Obiviously ambient air temps are going to be so kind of factor...

[robertbarr]

These original units tend to last for decades, if not generations; I got 54,000 miles out of my first one, the '79, and it worked fine when I sold it. Many last for twice that distance or more. Many perfectly functioning units are older than their owners, so I'm really curious about how this 'reputation for frailty' cropped up. If it's lasted for 28 years, I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for it to die.

They do fail, but it's not something that should keep an owner awake nights.

Just ride the bike and enjoy it. Ignore that component under the frame and let it do its job.

[focus frenzy]

So after riding for an hour or so, if I could get my hand in to touch the R\R how warm\hot might it be?? If all grounds are good, should it be slightly warm, warmer than that, hot. Obiviously ambient air temps are going to be so kind of factor...

it is hard to nail down a exact temp (well I could I have a IR thermometer) generaly they get toasty warm- borderline to hot to hold, it depends on the load on the electrical system and state of charge of the battery.

the more load on the charging system the cooler the R&R will be as the higher load reduces how mutch it has to shunt to ground.

yamaha mounted the R&R on some of their bikes to the back side of the passenger foot peg bracket (cast aluminum) very good idea.

you don't have to mount it in the same place as stock, you can relocate it by simply extending the leads.

[marvinsc]

Just a Casual Observation, Many if Not Most of the Bikes that Develop Electrical Issues Have been Left outside Exposed to the Weather. That Makes Sense since Moisture leads to Corrosion which Leads to Poor Conductivity which Leads to Heat Build Up Which Leads to Fried Wiring and Failure. As has Been Stated, Many OEM Units Last for Many Years and Thousands of Miles Trouble Free. I don't Know that I would Automatically Change out a Stock Unit that was Functioning Well. One needs to Be aware of the Potential For Trouble and Check the Charging Function from Time To Time and RIDE the Bike!:-D