Oh Sh*t - Now I Have To Split The Cases

[Guest]

I have swarf and metal shavings in the crankcase now. Also in around the big end journals. I am going to have to split the cases. I know this question has probably been answered before, but for the love of me I cannot find a simple succinct answer. What gasket sealer is best to use on the crankcase flanges when puting the cases back together? I am tossing up between Suzuki Bond #4 (if I can still get it) and Hylomar Universal Blue or Aerograde. Does anyone know if the Suzuki #4 is silicon based?

On another subject which is the best Loctite to use on the screws in and around the crankcase, e.g. screws holding selector mechanism, oil pump, etc. Screws that I don't want to go back to in the future. And please don't say Loctite Red or Blue, that doesn't mean anything to me. I need actual Loctite numbers please.

Cheers
Don

[doctorgonzo]

The loctite actually does come labeled as the color. Blue is semi permanent (you MIGHT need to take this apart in the future) and red is permanent (This is for keeps, like a weld, never meant to come apart again). It's like gasket stuff that comes a "utra grey", "black" etc... "Blue Loctite" really is the the part name.

[Suzuki_Don]

The loctite actually does come labeled as the color. Blue is semi permanent (you MIGHT need to take this apart in the future) and red is permanent (This is for keeps, like a weld, never meant to come apart again). It's like gasket stuff that comes a "utra grey", "black" etc... "Blue Loctite" really is the the part name.

OK. Thanks for that I will look for Blue Loctite then.

[rustybronco]

med strength=blue (normal usage)
permanent=red... locktite #262 (it comes apart, use it all the time, requires high turning force to remove)
stud and bearing mounting=green (requires heat to remove)

doctorgonzo is correct, ask for it by color.

[Suzuki_Don]

med strength=blue (normal usage)
permanent=red... locktite #262 (it comes apart, use it all the time, requires high turning force to remove)
stud and bearing mounting=green (requires heat to remove)

doctorgonzo is correct, ask for it by color.

OK. Thanks Guys. What about the flange gasket material.

[bwringer]

OK. Thanks Guys. What about the flange gasket material.

I've used this stuff with perfect results on three engine rebuilds so far. I might need a new tube for the next.:

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=178

It's 3Bond Liquid Gasket 1194 -- a semi-hardening sealant that's perfect in between cases on motorcycles. Highly recommended.

[bwringer]

Generally, red loctite is too hard for aluminum threads -- it'll tear them up pretty badly next time you disassemble.

Use red Loctite on steel/steel that you don't want to ever move again without drastic measures (or aluminum that you are dead certain you won't EVER need to remove again), and use blue on any steel/aluminum and semi-permanent steel/steel.

There's also green (penetrating, medium strength, for use on assembled fasteners) and purple (low strength for small fasteners) Loctite, and about 3,000,000,000 other slightly different formulations, cleaners, etc.

You can find red, blue, and green anywhere, and they're pretty much all you need.

[Suzuki_Don]

Generally, red loctite is too hard for aluminum threads -- it'll tear them up pretty badly next time you disassemble.

Use red Loctite on steel/steel that you don't want to ever move again without drastic measures (or aluminum that you are dead certain you won't EVER need to remove again), and use blue on any steel/aluminum and semi-permanent steel/steel.

There's also green (penetrating, medium strength, for use on assembled fasteners) and purple (low strength for small fasteners) Loctite, and about 3,000,000,000 other slightly different formulations, cleaners, etc.

You can find red, blue, and green anywhere, and they're pretty much all you need.

Hi. Thanks Brian. That 3Bond looks like the stuff that I am after. Could you give me a bit further of an explanation on the green loctite please? Like what type of fasteners and in what situations you would use it. I don't think I will use any of the red Loctite in the motor, I will stick to the blue on your suggestions. Thanks again Brian.

[rapidray]

Go to your local Suzuki dealer & tell them you want a tube of Threebond 1207B. It is the BLACK stuff. It is the ONLY thing I use to assemble cases. Ray.

[waterman]

I have used Yamabond 4, it is a gray colored sealant that seals well even when left to dry slightly. The drying was unintentional, but getting the gear shift forks in correct position was harder than imagined. Have used on two 650 cases without incidence.

[rustybronco]

Hi. Thanks Brian. That 3Bond looks like the stuff that I am after.

also known as suzuki bond, honda bond, yamabond.(don't quote me on the spelling).

[Suzuki_Don]

I have used Yamabond 4, it is a gray colored sealant that seals well even when left to dry slightly. The drying was unintentional, but getting the gear shift forks in correct position was harder than imagined. Have used on two 650 cases without incidence.

Yes. That's one of my worries too. That final assembly when the cases go together and hoping everything will work. I've done some practice runs on a 650 sets of cases I have with the transmission shafts installed and it does not just snap together likeI I thought. I might have a go at washing the bottm of the motor out with kero seeing as the motor is out of the frame and I can wash it from the sump side and then from the top (cylinder) side and see if I am happy with the result. Although I am not at all confident about getting all the metal particles out from the big end area and around the oil separator plates.

[jadesystem]

I would love to do this, but never had to split the case. It takes a lot
of time and makes a mess. Very rarely bikes have transmission problems
or other reasons to split the case. After 25 bikes, not one transmission
issue ever. Would love to tear into it though and see everything "move"
in a stealthy dream in front of me. And how the gears interact with each other.

I've seen how they put these cases altogether in China. Incredible
and only one human assembly line. It seems too easy.

[82Shafty]

I would love to do this, but never had to split the case. It takes a lot
of time and makes a mess. Very rarely bikes have transmission problems
or other reasons to split the case. After 25 bikes, not one transmission
issue ever. Would love to tear into it though and see everything "move"
in a stealthy dream in front of me. And how the gears interact with each other.

I've seen how they put these cases altogether in China. Incredible
and only one human assembly line. It seems too easy.

What kind of bike where they building?

[jadesystem]

Last year, I went to a city in China famous for motorcycle manufacturing. It is called Jiangmen City. I knew the sales manager there, and he invited me to a tour of his factory. In China, no bikes are over 250cc. Most are
100cc -125cc engines.

What was so amazing was the engine line and how they put these engines together. Understand the mindset in China, besides being the manufacturing arm of the word, and making 99% of the US imports -
"everthing is made in China" holds true. One other important aspect
of the China mindset........No robotics or factory automation. They would rather pay 200 new college graduates $200/year than pay millions on factory automation such as robotic assembly. Read the book "China Inc." !! China has an untapped workface in the MILLIONS !!

An engine assembly line complete with rollers and about 6 Chinese assembly workers. From the bare sidecase on its side, the case was
filled with the transmission assy, then the connecting rod with piston
and the crank, then the main bearings, the clutch assy, and the other
half of the side case attached. Then they used mallets to install the seals.

Then the completed bottom case was swung upright, and cylinders was next installed. Then the valve and head assembly went over the top
with the cam chain installed. And what was so amazing, they did it so lightning quick down to a "T". During the final "leg" of the assembly, a senior Chinese expert adjusts the valves by experience only, and dunks them in water for a leak check. This was an assembly line no more than
20-25 feel long. Then these whole engines are taken to a testing room where they are hooked-up electrically, hooked up top a temp gas tank, and a temporary exhaust is attach to them. They are kicked-over and started with a electronic starter to verify its integrity. I was blown away by this. I'll see if I have pics of this and will showcase on another thread.

The company is called Jinyee Motorcycle Company, and here is their website.

jinyeemotor.com

KT :-D\\/









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