Regulator rectifier question.

[Guest]

Ok, let me start by saying that I am new to the street bike scene. I have just bought an 82' gs1100gl that had been sitting for 9 years. It was pulled out of storage filled with gas, changed oil and plugs, changed out the battery and she fired right up with the choke on.

Heres the bad.
Wont idle without the choke on, if the choke is turned off the bike will stall immediately unless you hold the throttle on.

Here is what I have done and planned. Cleaned the carbs, not synced yet. Replacing the o-rings on the cylinder side boots, have to check the valve clearances, changed the air filter, changed the secondary and final drive gear oil. I have a new stator and R/R on the way from electorsport.

Another bigger problem I have encountered is that the P/O at some point worked on or had work done to the charging system. I performed the tests outlined in the Clymer manual I bought for the stator and R/R and got nothing. So, I start taking things apart and cleaning checking connections and low and behold I find what I believe to be the ground of the R/R connected to the +battery post! I will tell you all what I found to verify that it is indeed a ground, the R/R has the four wires coming out to the plug and then one lone wire that is Black/Wh(ground correct?) It was this Black/Wh wire that was connected to the +battery post. Anyone have any insight as to why someone would wire the R/R this way? Would this cause the failure of the charging system? Just want to verify before I hook up the new parts from electrosport.

There is my story thus far, I am very happy with the bike so far and looking forward to riding it. Even in its current condition it runs strong off of the battery that is.

Sorry for the long first post. Thanks to all that belong to this site for the help and information that they provide I hope to one day learn enough about my bike to return the help to others.

Have a happy 4th of July all, Parker

[chef1366]

Because they're an idiot. I bet that fried the stator real quick.

[psyguy]

Heres the bad.
Wont idle without the choke on, if the choke is turned off the bike will stall immediately unless you hold the throttle on.

if the engine compression is good... you need:
- no leaks in the intake boots
- properly sealed airbox with the filter element in
- carbs pilot mixture screws set at 2 1/2 turns out

it should be able to start only with the choke on - and it should run with the choke off as soon as it warms up

[dr_fosg8]

Thanks for the replys, I am getting new o-rings for the intake boots as the old ones were hard and brittle. The airbox has a new element in and I believe to be sealed well. Are the pilot mixture screws the ones that come plugged from the factory or the ones under the rubber piece inside the float bowl.

[doctorgonzo]

Thanks for the replys, I am getting new o-rings for the intake boots as the old ones were hard and brittle. The airbox has a new element in and I believe to be sealed well. Are the pilot mixture screws the ones that come plugged from the factory or the ones under the rubber piece inside the float bowl.

The ones that are plugged.

[JayH]

You'll probably find that the caps have already been drilled out by PO. Make sure to lube the choke and throttle cable while you have the carbs apart.

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi dr_fosg8,

Welcome to the forum.

Is your r/r a 5-wire or 6-wire unit?

If it is a 5 wire unit, the ground wire should run to the negative (-) battery terminal. This avoids the lousy frame ground where most stock bikes have the r/r grounded to the battery box and improves charging performance.

If it is a 6-wire unit, the ground wire still goes to the negative battery terminal. The 6th wire is a "sense" wire that gets connected to a switched 12 volt supply, usually to the tail light (at the brake light switch) or somewhere else in the wiring harness that gets turned on with the ignition switch. IF you have the 6-wire unit and IF the previous owner got lazy, the "sense" wire could have been connected to the positive battery post. (The sense wire reads the system voltage and tells the r/r to adjust its DC output accordingly.) After all of that, it is highly unlikely that you have a 6-wire r/r on your bike, unless the previous owner knows our Mr. duaneage.

Who's Mr. duaneage? You can find out in your very own, new and improved mega-welcome!

(In the next post.)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Dear fellow GS rider,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)!

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***********************************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:

http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:

http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:

http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php

http://www.electrosport.com/

For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):
http://www.realgaskets.com
Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid
http://www.motogrid.com
Salvage/Used
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

http://www.ozpowersports.com/

If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Used bike buying checklists:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki
http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm
Online Clymer manuals:
http://search.ebscohost.com/ Click on "Small Engine Repair" then "Motorcycles". User=library, password=library. Note: This link may not work if you are on a school campus.

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

[PaulC]

Don't know specifically why but researching R/R issues thought I've seen a number of times people saying that you SHOULD run a new ground from the R/R to the battery to improve the overall circuit.

[doctorgonzo]

Don't know specifically why but researching R/R issues thought I've seen a number of times people saying that you SHOULD run a new ground from the R/R to the battery to improve the overall circuit.

Poor grounding tops the list of reasons for overheat and failure of the system (along with resistance at old connectors). So taking a nice clean connection straight to a battery ground takes that issue off the table.

[BassCliff]

Cooking with electrons

Poor grounding tops the list of reasons for overheat and failure of the system (along with resistance at old connectors). So taking a nice clean connection straight to a battery ground takes that issue off the table.

Don't know specifically why but researching R/R issues thought I've seen a number of times people saying that you SHOULD run a new ground from the R/R to the battery to improve the overall circuit.

After re-reading Mr. dr_fosg8's original post, our confusion has been caused because he suspects the PO of connecting the ground wire from the r/r directly to the positive terminal of the battery. I'm pretty sure this is not a good thing to do.

That black/white wire sure sounds like a ground wire. If so, it should not be connected to the positive battery post. I hope this one turns out well.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[RobC]

After re-reading Mr. dr_fosg8's original post, our confusion has been caused because he suspects the PO of connecting the ground wire from the r/r directly to the positive terminal of the battery. I'm pretty sure this is not a good thing to do.

That black/white wire sure sounds like a ground wire. If so, it should not be connected to the positive battery post. I hope this one turns out well.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Umm shouldn't that be the negative post. Ground wire usually goes to the - . :-)

[BassCliff]

Umm shouldn't that be the negative post. Ground wire usually goes to the - . :-)

You're catching on!

Perhaps you need to re-read the posts as well.

Mr. dr_fosg8, do you have a wiring diagram and manual for your bike? I just realized that a black/white wire may not be ground in all cases.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[dr_fosg8]

Basscliff, thank you for responding.

I do have the clymers manual for the bike. The wiring diagram oddly does not have a black/white wire showing for the r/r, only the red, yellow, blue/white, and red/white. I will post a pic of the r/r shortly.

[rustybronco]

and any numbers found on the r/r please.