turn signal relay

[firecat]

what is the third wire for ? i put in a 2 prong flasher and signal lites work fine. i would read the links basscliff sends but my junky old computer cant open anything.

[rustybronco]

A ground IIRC.
I BELIEVE the auto cancel may not work without it. but I won't know for sure for a month or so until I try it.

***amended*** as steve said the the third wire goes to/from? the turn signal unit

[Steve]

That third wire definitely comes from the auto-cancel control unit.
I have not yet examined the details of the circuitry, but I have the feeling that it basically tells the flasher when to operate.

When I get the basic stuff sorted out on my son's bike, I will be looking into the possibility of replacing the flasher unit with an electronic one so that LED signals can be used, but still retain the self cancelling feature. I know this can be done with resistors to create a load for the stock flasher, but that does not reduce the load on the bike like an LED signal should.

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[firecat]

hmmm, didnt know these old bikes had a self cancel feature.

[chef1366]

I have a couple of those self cancel units if anyone needs one.

[Steve]

hmmm, didnt know these old bikes had a self cancel feature.

Not sure when they started, but I think it might have been with the larger '81 models.
My younger son's '81 850 has them, my older son's '82 650L does not, but my wife's '82 850L does.

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[Riding Again]

My '80 850 has it as well.

[PAULYBOY]

Not sure when they started, but I think it might have been with the larger '81 models.
My younger son's '81 850 has them, my older son's '82 650L does not, but my wife's '82 850L does.

.

Hi, Steve. Pauly from Cincy here. My 81 850 says auto cancel on the switch, yet the plug that plugged inti the rectangular relay only had 2 prongs at 90 degress to each other. I replaced it with a 2 prong clear electronic flasher from Autozone. How would I connect a third prong?

[Steve]

I will have to look at his bike to see just how it's arranged. I can get pictures later, as I just had that whole area apart, changing the battery and the r/r, cleaning ground points, etc.

I will get back to you later on that point.

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[Skyboy8950]

I have an 82 850 and don't think I have an auto cancel... How do they work? What makes them cancel?

[rustybronco]

I have an 82 850 and don't think I have an auto cancel...

it was equipped with auto cancel from the factory.

[BassCliff]

Cooking with electrons

what is the third wire for ? i put in a 2 prong flasher and signal lites work fine. i would read the links basscliff sends but my junky old computer cant open anything.

Hi Mr. firecat,

Most of the guides on my site are PDF files. If your computer is having trouble opening them, try to "right-click" and "Save as...", then download the file onto your hard drive, in the 'My Documents' folder or other directory where you can find it again. Then use the free Adobe Reader to open the file. (Download the Adobe Reader at http://www.adobe.com .)

In my situation, I wired a ground, the switched 12v source, and the drive wire to the blinkers. There were just three terminals on this particular relay.

The OEM turn signal relay will cancel the blinkers after 9 seconds unless the bike is traveling less than 15mph or stopped. The turn signal control unit (a separate unit) must have a timing circuit as well as a speed sensing circuit tied into the speedometer.

The Black/Blue wire that I recently left disconnected runs to the turn signal control unit and probably tells the blinkers when to quit. The OEM turn signal relay apparently is not a "standard" automotive relay. The wiring diagram CLICK HERE is very useful. There's a full service manual on my site too.

I'd be interested in how to get the self-canceling feature to work again once I install some high intensity LED signals. I wonder what kind of signal gets transmitted via the blue/black wire from the control unit back to the OEM relay that tells it to tun off the blinkers, and if an off-the-shelf relay could be used in the same way.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[Steve]

I replaced it with a 2 prong clear electronic flasher from Autozone. How would I connect a third prong?

Paul, I just looked at the kid's bike. The (stock) black plug that the flasher relay plug into, does, in fact, have three terminals. Yes, you can plug in a 2-prong flasher and get it to work, as long as you have it connected to the correct two prong. On my stock flasher relay, the terminals are labeled B, L, and C. My guess is that they stand for Battery, Load, and Control, as that is where the wires go. If you connect your 2-prong flasher to the B and L terminals, it will flash the lights, but will not auto-cancel. In the diagram in BassCliff's link, the flasher is in the upper-right corner. The orange/green wire is the power input, the blue wire is the output to the flashers. The blue/black wire comes from the control unit. Plug your 2-prong flasher into the orange/green and blue terminals, not the one with the blue/black wire.

.

[Steve]

I have an 82 850 and don't think I have an auto cancel... How do they work? What makes them cancel?

You should have it, unless a previous owner disabled it for some reason.

Examine your turn signal switch. Does it feel a bit 'mushy' when pushed to either extreme? That's good. There are actually FIVE positions on that switch, for the sake of this dialog we will number them 1 thru 5, from left to right. Position #1 is spring-loaded and will return the switch to position #2. #1 will activate the left turn signal, then #2 will keep it going as long as the control unit says to keep it going. Position #3 will manually cancel either turn signal. Skipping over to #5, it will start the right turn signal, then return to position #4, where it will stay on as long as the control unit says to keep going. If your last turn was to the right and you now want to go left, you will have to push the signal from position #4 all the way to #1 to turn on the left signal. Now you know why the switch feels 'different'.

The control unit is tied in to the speedometer. I believe the specs say that it will keep the turn signals activated until you have been over 10 mph (15 kph) for over 10 seconds. At that time, a signal is given to the flasher unit to stop flashing, even though the switch position has not changed. That signal is received by the third prong on the stock flasher. That is why a standard 3-prong automotive flasher can not be used.

Many of the members of this forum have felt that the auto-cancel feature is not right for them, so they have disabled it. Although it does have its limitations, I prefer to keep it. In normal operation, you may have to re-start the signal if you are approaching a turn in a long turn lane, but all you have to to is push the signal switch again. I tend to do this before the signal cancels, just to keep it going. On the other hand, for a lane change on the freeway, it seems to stay on too long. I think my wife's bike gets about 16 flashes before it cancels. Most of the time I feel that 7 or 8 is sufficient. No problem, just move the switch to the center and cancel them manually. If you are really attentive to your signals, you can do a better job than the auto-cancel feature. It is just nice to have a backup so you don't run out of blinker fluid.

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[Skyboy8950]

Wow, that was very detailed. I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure mine doesn't work...

Too bad the blinker fluid is sold out.
"KaleCoAuto blinker fluid will not lose its viscosity even in the most extreme situations."

I do A LOT of extreme blinking. Crap.