I've f%$#& had it with brakes

[salty_monk]

Jeff... hold on, can't be that bad & I don't believe you need new lines. You have new lines already. We can sort it out....

Dan

[J_C]

Thank you 49er. Chef had just told me about this method last evening on the phone. Looks like I'm going to be holding off on any work for now.......


Thx Dan. I'll wait. Hopefully they'll be good enough to get me to garage day.

I guess at this point I'm on to the last thing on my list (synching and tuning carbs).

Any idea on when we can have garage day? I was hoping to get one last ride before I start my first year of Law School (which by all accounts in an unpleasant experience where time will be at a premium) but am realizing despite my best efforts this wont likely happen.

[don_gibb6512]

What is the condition of the calipers? Are they OEM and have you ever taken them apart to see if the pistons are moving freely? If you haven't taken the calipers apart yet, and it was me, I would do that. If for nothing else than to be sure of the condition they're in. The original lines can absorb a lot of pressure through expansion of the line. Have you held on to the brake line to see if you can feel any expansion when you're squeezing the lever? I'm just trying to come up with ideas on what you can do to narrow down where you need to focus your attention. If you're going to keep the bike for any length of time, it would be worth your while to swap out the OEM lines for SS anyway. And unless I missed it, did you replace the washers at the banjo bolts or reuse the old ones?

Don

[Roger P.]

Have you tried pumping with the MC cover on? It was the only way I was able to build pressure in a very recalcitrant brake system two summers ago. Fill the MC absolutely full (without overflowing when you put the cap on) and pump it that way. I was amazed at how quickly the system came up. This was after changing out the lines to braided steel, so it was a complete fill from empty. Also make compltely sure that any small secondary holes in the bottom of the MC are not plugged.

[J_C]

Hi Don,

I rebuilt the calipers (OEM). I just took them apart and replaced the piston seals to be sure it was working correctly, and I regreased the pins.

The washers I reused; they're solid brass washers.

[Matchless]

I have been there, same frustation and also used different M/C's.
Finally I clamped a piece of pipe in the vice and bolted the M/C to it. Put an old banjo bolt on it with about 500 mm of clear pipe run straight up above the M/C, gave it a pump and waited then another and slowly all the air disappeared, then pointed the end into the reservoir, pumped and within a short while the stream was strong with no air, fitted it to the bike and bled normally and all was well.
The issue here seems to be that once you have cleaned it out properly and fitted it dry, it being higher than the brake line and calipers, and where the banjo is not right at the back of the M/C some air seems to get trapped and once that is out all is well.
Dont give up!

[J_C]

Hi roger, yes I've been pumping with the cover on. The system now has a minor bit of presure in it, it just still takes two pumps before I get a firm feel at the lever.

[rustybronco]

1. Did you replace the brake pads?

2. if not, did you put the old pads in the exact same spots they came out of?

3. was/is there a taper to the pad wear?

[J_C]

1. yes, brand new ferodo platinums
3. no, but as a result of the fact that one of the calipers was previously stuck, the side that was unstuck had pads with significantly more wear

[82Shafty]

I remember going through the voodoo brake master cylinder dance and only to realize the amount of time I wasted on junk.

I bought a new OEM Honda master, never bench bled the unit; simply installed, pumped hard as a rock in two pumps after filling reservoir, I bled at caliper, and all was well.

You have to ask yourself, what's your life worth? Brakes are not an option and you only get one chance to live. The five days you spent at night trying to revive a corpse of a master when you could have been out riding just isn't worth it; to me it certainly isn't.

Either rebuild the master or bite the bullet and get a new one. Worst case you retro-fit.

[Nessism]

Jeff,

Is there enough brake there to move the bike? If so, my garage has more room than Dan's since he has three bikes these days...or is it four?

At any rate, I'll help if I can.

Ed

[salty_monk]

Ed - it's four But only 3 of them are here.

I could do with some help timing up the Falcon after putting in the new distributor & electronic ignition (should be a simple job but more difficult to juggle on your own) & I'm about this Saturday all day & Sunday until mid afternoon.....

I have both a master cylinder that "should" be ok & a set of known good caliper's (just removed from my G) we can try too ( but they won't travel because they are still full of fluid, I wanted to keep the seals wet - maybe a good thing in this case, be easier to fit & bleed).

What do you say we start out at my place if bike will travel & go from there, we can move to your better equipped one if necessary!

Considering Jeff is getting the same thing with both master cylinders I'm inclined to look harder at the caliper's at this stage & work backwards from there.

Jeff - what was the original reason for swapping out that Master cylinder?

Dan

[lucabond]

Don't know if this will help. I took my front wheel off to replace the tire. When it was still on and in the air I gave it a spin. It was dragging so once i had it off I checked the axle it was fine so started to look at the calipers 1 was frozen I put a c-clamp on the good 1 and pumped the other piston out. Cleaned up the caliper body and piston and put it back together. As I was bleeding it while hanging from a wire I noticed that if I moved the caliper around sorta rotated it with a clear plastic tube over the bleeder I was able to get a stream of bubbles to come out, probably trapped in the caliper and when I rotated it around was able to get them out. Its working like a charm now. I'm thinking there was a pocket of air trapped in the caliper under the brake fluid and by rotating it was able to let the trapped air escape. Worth a try in your'e case as it seemed you have tried everything else. Good luck,
Paul

[salty_monk]

Sometimes it helps to tap the calipers, connector & hoses with the back of a screwdriver to loosen up the bubbles of air too....

Dan

[J_C]

Either rebuild the master or bite the bullet and get a new one. Worst case you retro-fit.

If you read through, you'd see I've done both of these "options". I'm still where I am. I have a new MC, a rebuilt mc, new lines, and rebuilt calipers.

Believe me, I'm not taking this lightly.