No spark - HELP!

[sam 07]

Hello All!

I want to say thanks for all of the available resources on this website.

I got a free GS550L from a friend. It was sitting on the side of his house for 2 years. He said if i can get it running its mine otherwise sell it for parts. I believe its a 78 since the ignition system only has points and two coils. The motor has 24k miles.

So my quest has begun to get this bike running. I found the carbs to be stuck closed so i removed the battery, gas tank, loosened the intake and removed the carbs. With a delicate hand and carb cleaner i managed to free up the carbs and choke.

While everything was out of the way i cleaned up every electrical connection i ran into. The fuses are all good but i cleaned the connections anyway. All grounds got cleaned and tightened. All lights, turn signals, brake lights, cluster lights operate.

I put my jump box on and the bike cranks but no start. I pulled out all spark plugs, cleaned them, verified proper gap and installed them. I sprayed carb cleaner into the intake, cranked it and no start. I hooked my timing light to the plug wires and found no spark. I have 12.6 volts at both orange w/white strip wires going to the coils. I followed the wires through two sets of connectors looking for corrosion. None found, no resistance. The black and white wires go to the contact points that read off the crank. I found corrosion on the contact points so i cleaned them with sand paper.

I thought i solved the problem, hooked up the jump back and still no spark. OK....I decided to pull out a plug, ground it and disconnected the black wire to the coil. I provided a ground to the black wire ever so quickly and TA-DA, i get spark! I tested both coils and both are providing spark.

So i am down to contact points and capacitor. With the cover off and cranking the motor there are no sparks whatsoever. The gaps seem to be in spec but i couldnt find my feeler gauge. There is perfect continuity from the contact points to the coils.

Is there a way to test the capacitor and points. Are these known to go bad? Have i missed anything? My goal is to get this bike running without spending a dime or at least be 100% sure a part is bad before i replace it.

Thanks for the help!
Sam

[chef1366]

Spend the money and get a manual.

[sam 07]

Thanks!

I already downloaded the service manual and read the entire ignition section (setting timing included). My questions still remain!

Im not a parts swapper like some techs! The capacitor and points can be replaced separetly. My question is how to test them?

[onchiman]

Well you've ruled out the coils so its down to the points. Its a very simple circuit. Current passes through the points to the coil thus energizing them. When the points open it breaks the circuit and the coil discharges its stored energy by firing the plug. Since you have current at the coils it means they are energizing. Recheck your points. I'd take out the spark plugs reconnect the plug wires and let the plugs rest on the engine. Then with the ignition on see if you get spark by manually opening the points. If still no spark, then the problem lies in the wiring somewhere and you'll have to track it down.

[rustybronco]

I followed the wires through two sets of connectors looking for corrosion. None found, no resistance. The black and white wires go to the contact points that read off the crank. I found corrosion on the contact points so i cleaned them with sand paper.

never use sand paper on points. use either a point file or in a pinch, some emery cloth. sand makes a good insulator when adhered to the contact surfaces.

There is perfect continuity from the contact points to the coils.

Voltage at the points when both are blocked open I hope.

Is there a way to test the capacitor and points. Are these known to go bad?
Thanks for the help!
Sam

the points can be tested for continuity to ground when in the closed position with a VOM (check each one separately,key off please).

there should be no continuity when they are both open. *note, the reading may take a little while to settle down, as the condenser(s) charge(s) up.

if the meter shows a low resistance, with both points open, disconnect the condensers one at a time and test for short(s).

[posplayr]

Hello All!

I want to say thanks for all of the available resources on this website.

I got a free GS550L from a friend. It was sitting on the side of his house for 2 years. He said if i can get it running its mine otherwise sell it for parts. I believe its a 78 since the ignition system only has points and two coils. The motor has 24k miles.

So my quest has begun to get this bike running. I found the carbs to be stuck closed so i removed the battery, gas tank, loosened the intake and removed the carbs. With a delicate hand and carb cleaner i managed to free up the carbs and choke.

While everything was out of the way i cleaned up every electrical connection i ran into. The fuses are all good but i cleaned the connections anyway. All grounds got cleaned and tightened. All lights, turn signals, brake lights, cluster lights operate.

I put my jump box on and the bike cranks but no start. I pulled out all spark plugs, cleaned them, verified proper gap and installed them. I sprayed carb cleaner into the intake, cranked it and no start. I hooked my timing light to the plug wires and found no spark. I have 12.6 volts at both orange w/white strip wires going to the coils. I followed the wires through two sets of connectors looking for corrosion. None found, no resistance. The black and white wires go to the contact points that read off the crank. I found corrosion on the contact points so i cleaned them with sand paper.

I thought i solved the problem, hooked up the jump back and still no spark. OK....I decided to pull out a plug, ground it and disconnected the black wire to the coil. I provided a ground to the black wire ever so quickly and TA-DA, i get spark! I tested both coils and both are providing spark.

So i am down to contact points and capacitor. With the cover off and cranking the motor there are no sparks whatsoever. The gaps seem to be in spec but i couldnt find my feeler gauge. There is perfect continuity from the contact points to the coils.

Is there a way to test the capacitor and points. Are these known to go bad? Have i missed anything? My goal is to get this bike running without spending a dime or at least be 100% sure a part is bad before i replace it.

Thanks for the help!
Sam

Sounds like you have been doing a great job of reviving this old GS. Sounds like you are very Self reliant and have done most of the hard work. Great job.

Ok now to my question: "What is a jump box?"

Anyway, I'll have to wait for an answer.

Because you can pull the black wire and generate a Spark, that says that current is flowing through the primary and through the points. The only other current is not flowing through the points is if the capacitor is shorted.

As you know the ignition fires when the current in the coil is disrupted by opening the points. The capacitor is an alternate path to ground so that the spark that is created in the primary side doesn't burn the points. A simple test would be to use an ohm meter between the two sides of the points contacts when there are open. If you have continuity that says the capacitor is shorted. You can then pull the capacitor and see if it is shorted to confirm. You should be an open circuit using a ohm meter.

I don't have one of these points bikes; is it possible to manipulate the points open rather than cranking the engine to check for spark?

Pos

[rustybronco]

is it possible to manipulate the points open rather than cranking the engine to check for spark?

Pos

You can use a small screwdriver across the "side" of the point contacts, to simulate conductivity, if the contact surfaces are bad. when you remove the screw driver... spark...

if the contacts are good, just open them with a stick and watch for spark.

[posplayr]

You can use a small screwdriver across the "side" of the point contacts, to simulate conductivity, if the contact surfaces are bad. when you remove the screw driver... spark...

if the contacts are good, just open them with a stick and watch for spark.

I was thinking more like pushing on the cam pad to open and close so the current actually flows through the points contact and not a screwdriver.

The problem seems to be that there is a short across the points or they are never opening. Short could be a shorted condenser or maybe the wires to the points were shorted by a engine cover providing continuity and current to the coil, they just never break open due to the short.

Jim

[GQROD]

It could be your pick up coil that is bad, on my old porsche this was always failing, definetly a cheap fix. Just make sure your dwell is spot on and clean or new points and you'll be fine.

[sam 07]

Hi guys! Thanks for the testing info! Points style ignition was before my time and I really appreciate the tips. (yes, Im a technician)

To answer the JUMP BOX question. Its simply a battery booster box for jump starting cars. A perfect substitute for a battery granted your jump box is fully charged. The bike had the original battery in it so before i spend cash on a battery i wanted to see if i can get her going!

When i get home ill do some further testing and let you gents know!

Thanks Again.

[atchbo]

Why not just replace the condensers? You can get points and condensers for relatively cheap. Or replace with electronic ignition (wish I had the money).

[sam 07]

Update....

I separated the points and tested for continuity. Unfortunitly, i have continuity so i am assuming the capacitor is shorted. Also i noticed the points on the left side (connected to the white wire) are not closing all the way.

It looks like i will be getting points and a capacitor.

Then something weird happened....
I unbolted the capacitor from the plate to inspect it and left both connectors attached to the points. No outward signs of burn marks or chaffed wires. I put my timing light on and PRESTO, i had spark on one coil (2 wires) connected on the black wire. The coil on the white wire wasnt firing since the point is not closing properly. To Verify the coil on the white wire circuit was good i plugged the black into the white and PRESTO, spark on the other coil.

I then decided to swap capacitor connections from left to right. (capacitor still hanging but connected to the points) Same senerio. Spark on the right side point(black wire). For giggles, i installed the capacitor to the plate. NO SPARK!

Weird! Anyways like i said before, capacitor and points! Now to source these parts, any suggestions? Suzuki dealer? Online store? Anyone want to donate to the cause?

[sam 07]

bueller.....bueller...

[onchiman]

Z1 Enterprises has kits.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1339

When you call them, make sure to have your vin number available or try to locate a name on the points plate as I think there were two different ignitions on the 550's at that time. Kokusan (Kok) and Nippon Denso (ND). I remember my '79 550E had one or the other and I ordered the wrong one. It was a while ago and I have long since switched to a Dyna S electronic ignition.

[Killer2600]

Update....

I separated the points and tested for continuity. Unfortunitly, i have continuity so i am assuming the capacitor is shorted. Also i noticed the points on the left side (connected to the white wire) are not closing all the way.

It looks like i will be getting points and a capacitor.

Then something weird happened....
I unbolted the capacitor from the plate to inspect it and left both connectors attached to the points. No outward signs of burn marks or chaffed wires. I put my timing light on and PRESTO, i had spark on one coil (2 wires) connected on the black wire. The coil on the white wire wasnt firing since the point is not closing properly. To Verify the coil on the white wire circuit was good i plugged the black into the white and PRESTO, spark on the other coil.

I then decided to swap capacitor connections from left to right. (capacitor still hanging but connected to the points) Same senerio. Spark on the right side point(black wire). For giggles, i installed the capacitor to the plate. NO SPARK!

Weird! Anyways like i said before, capacitor and points! Now to source these parts, any suggestions? Suzuki dealer? Online store? Anyone want to donate to the cause?

There's your answer "shorted capacitor", without a ground the capacitor can't short the circuit.