Tank re-line questions

[alke46]

Need some help from the experienced guys here. I have removed a failed tank liner and am now soaking the tank with milkstone remover and aquarium rocks.
My questions are:
1) after the msr gets rid of the rust, do I just flush it out with soapy water? How long can I leave the msr in the tank?
2) is this the point where I need to insert a hair dryer to completely dry out the tank before putting in the new liner material?
3) will the tank start to flash rust while I am drying with hair dryer?
4) can I use the excess liner material to coat the tank a second time? seems like 2 coats would be better than 1 as long as there is left over material. Right or wrong?

Sorry for the long post but want to be sure I am doing the job right. Thanks guys,
Larry

[almarconi]

My questions are:
1) after the msr gets rid of the rust, do I just flush it out with soapy water? How long can I leave the msr in the tank?
2) is this the point where I need to insert a hair dryer to completely dry out the tank before putting in the new liner material?
3) will the tank start to flash rust while I am drying with hair dryer?
4) can I use the excess liner material to coat the tank a second time? seems like 2 coats would be better than 1 as long as there is left over material. Right or wrong?

I'll try to answer your questions..

1. After you use the acid, drain the tank. I usually use a powerwasher to blast any loose rust, scale and get rid of the residual acid. Depending on the concentration of the acid and the extent of the rust, I would leave it in probably about 8-24 hours.
2. Once you get rid of the rust and acid, I like to pour some acetone in the tank to get rid of any water. I would use a shop vac set on blow to run air through the tank. Its not really necessary since the acetone should get rid of most of the water.
3. the phosphoric acid will leave a phosphate coating on the metal that has some rust resistance but if you are not going to use the tank right away, I would coat the metal with WD40 or a light oil.
4. You did not state what you are using to coat the tank. Follow the directions on the package. More may not be better.

I personally like the caswell epoxy for coating tanks. Really depends on how bad the rust is and if it leaks or not. Do a search on this forum, this topic has been posted on many times before. Good luck with your recoat.

[alke46]

Thanks alot for your insight. The product I am using is "gas tank sealer" from Bill Hirsch Automotive products.
The instructions on the can says 1 coat is required if only rust was involved. If tank was leaking, it might be better to repeat the process.
I guess since mine was not leaking, I will just do the single coating.

Thanks again,
Larry

[Nessism]

I've done a few tanks now and my technique is to leave the phosphate solution in the tank until all the red rust is removed or converted (it will look dark gray). You will have to rotate the tank into different positions and allow the solution to dwell in different areas of he tank. The phosphate will leave the tank with a chalky residue which should be removed as much as possible - those aquarium rocks will help scrub the surface of the metal. I suggest developing a shaking technique so the entire surface of the tank is scrubbed. The most difficult area to hit is the hump that goes over the frame backbone.

Once you have all the rust and phosphate chalk removed, dump everything out and flush the tank with water. The phosphate will save the tank from flash rusting. You need to dry it out 100% before the sealer is applied. Some alcohol will speed up the drying process or use a hair drier set on low speed to blow inside the tank. I had a failed coating attempt because there was moisture inside the tank so this step can't be stressed enough.

For the sealer, flow it around to make sure all the surface is coated and then pour out the excess. At this point there will still be lots of extra material inside the tank. Continue to twist and turn the tank and you will get a second coat on the inside - or at least you can using a material like Por-15 sealer. Once the material kicks off, you can stop turning - usually about 30 min.

Good luck and hope this helps.

[spyug]

For the sealer, flow it around to make sure all the surface is coated and then pour out the excess. At this point there will still be lots of extra material inside the tank. Continue to twist and turn the tank and you will get a second coat on the inside - or at least you can using a material like Por-15 sealer. Once the material kicks off, you can stop turning - usually about 30 min.

Very good advice. I don't know the kit you are using but I've used Kreeme, POR-15 and lately the Caswell epoxy. Caswell is by far the easiest to use as it doesn't call for a thorough cleaning of the tank. It is designed to grab and encapsulate any rust ( but knock off the big chunks first). With this kit there is enough product to do two tanks. Me, being a genius, figured I could do double coats but instead of halving the batch and doing it twice I poured the whole lot in. Did a good job of covering but when it finally kicked I had a big mass right by where the tank sender unit fit. So now no sender unit and a bit less gas tank volume.

When you get it done let us klnow how it turns out so others can compare with the more widely known products.

Good luck with it.

spyug.

[alke46]

Very good advice.

When you get it done let us klnow how it turns out so others can compare with the more widely known products.

Good luck with it.

spyug.

Yes I will post the final results. Hope my product by Bill Hirsch works well as I certainly don't want to do this again. Having done this for the 1st time, I guess the next time would be easier with all I've learned on this one.

[exdirtbiker]

In NJ, the "Oxygenated fuel" would rip the Kreme off in 2 years. And then the goop would trash the carbs. ( what I heard)

I used POR-15 in a Ninja 900 tank, and LOVED it.
The 65 yr-old trucker next door swears "if someone wrecks a rig, and the tanks are POR-15 lined already, they will make sure they get those tanks back from the bone yard. good for 20 years" he says.
I sold that bike after 2 months, but it sure looked bullet-proof.

I have heard of alot of people having problems with Kreme after a few years, no one I found knew about the POR-15, and I never heard of that other stuff mentioned above.
Let us know how you make out !

[alke46]

[QUOTE=exdirtbiker;1015077]In NJ, the "Oxygenated fuel" would rip the Kreme off in 2 years. And then the goop would trash the carbs. ( what I heard)


The 65 yr-old trucker next door swears "if someone wrecks a rig, and the tanks are POR-15 lined already, they will make sure they get those tanks back from the bone yard. good for 20 years" he says.


Very interesting observation. And yes I will post my results of the bill hirsch product.

[alke46]

Ok, so today I drained out the milkstone remover and discovered a small amount of old liner did not get removed. The drained msr was quite discolored but I managed to contain it back in it's original container.

I am going to go ahead with a second application of KS-3 stripper but now I need to know if I still have to do a second rinse with the msr. The 1st acid rinse sure did a job of turning the inside of the tank a battleship gray color but I think that it is supposed to do just that.

Can I re-use the msr or do I need to purchase some fresh for the next rinse?

Also, are there any tricks to help see the inside of the tank especially the middle where it fits over the frame backbone?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Nessism]

You are on the right track. Keep going...

The sediment should drop out of the MSR in a day or so, allowing you to pour off the clean stuff on top.

The gray apperance of the metal is normal but I suggest you shake the living H*ELL out out of the tank with those aquarium rocks in there to scrub off the chalky residue.

To see inside the tank look though the petcock hole. If you place a flashlight shining in though the main filler opening you can actually see inside the tank quite well.

Good luck.

[alke46]

You are on the right track. Keep going...

The sediment should drop out of the MSR in a day or so, allowing you to pour off the clean stuff on top.

The gray apperance of the metal is normal but I suggest you shake the living H*ELL out out of the tank with those aquarium rocks in there to scrub off the chalky residue.

To see inside the tank look though the petcock hole. If you place a flashlight shining in though the main filler opening you can actually see inside the tank quite well.

Good luck.

Thanks Ed, I was hoping to get just that response from you. I thought I was on the right track but sometimes a bit of reinforcement helps.

[Nessism]

After doing a few tanks now I've developed a shaking technique, several actually, to get the aquarium rocks to slide over the various surfaces of the tank. Getting the outer surface is easy; use a sideways shaking motion while holding the tank is different positions. Getting the rocks to scrub the backbone hump is the hard part. You need to move the rocks into position and then sort of throw them at the hump. Give it some thought and you will figure it out.

Good luck.

[alke46]

Yes I will post the final results. Hope my product by Bill Hirsch works well as I certainly don't want to do this again. Having done this for the 1st time, I guess the next time would be easier with all I've learned on this one.

Very good advice. I don't know the kit you are using but I've used Kreeme, POR-15 and lately the Caswell epoxy. Caswell is by far the easiest to use as it doesn't call for a thorough cleaning of the tank. It is designed to grab and encapsulate any rust ( but knock off the big chunks first). With this kit there is enough product to do two tanks. Me, being a genius, figured I could do double coats but instead of halving the batch and doing it twice I poured the whole lot in. Did a good job of covering but when it finally kicked I had a big mass right by where the tank sender unit fit. So now no sender unit and a bit less gas tank volume.

When you get it done let us klnow how it turns out so others can compare with the more widely known products.

Good luck with it.

spyug.

Tank is done --- sorry for taking so long to post the results but here goes:
The milkstone remover and aquarium rocks did a good job but when I rinsed them out I was getting some flash rusting.
My Bill Hirsch product stated I could seal over flash rusting but I did not want to after spending so much time making the tank look good again, so I purchased a can of tank etch from Hirsch and after removing the flash rust, I just drained out the etch stuff and let the tank dry. No more flash rust.
Then I used the Hirsch tank sealer and it did a real good job, however, it seemed to take too long to set up and I had to keep rotating the tank for quite a while to prevent the sealer from puddling in places you don't want puddles.

The end result is very good for my liking but if I were to do another failed tank lining, I think I would skip the milkstone remover and just use the stripper and rocks 1st followed by the tank etch product and finally the tank sealer which I would buy from Hirsch automotive again.

[Macmatic]

Just a shaking tip here...

I did a tank with POR-15 a couple of years ago and the way I shook it was to wrap it up in an old comforter and then wedge that into the center of my clothes dryer with other clothes. Then I ran the dryer on no heat for about an hour, turned the tank and repacked and then ran it for another hour. Other than loose dust that blew out pretty well with air it was spotless.

/\/\ac

[alke46]

Just a shaking tip here...

I did a tank with POR-15 a couple of years ago and the way I shook it was to wrap it up in an old comforter and then wedge that into the center of my clothes dryer with other close. Then I ran the dryer on no head for about an hour, turned the tank and repacked and ran it for another hour and other than loose dust that blew out pretty well with air it was spotless.

/\/\ac

Excuse me for laughing but really that is quite innovative. It does make sense and would really save your arms. Wish I had thought of it.