charging disappointment

[reddirtrider]

The stator is usually checked when disconnected from the R/R, thus a "no load" check and all three phases must be checked for approximately 80V AC at 5000 RPM.

Ok, then the voltage you'll see is also proportional to the number of turns, the strength of the magnetic field, and frequency (RPM).

I'll add a bit here. The heavy duty stators you refer to may have less windings due to space limitations. In that case, then yes the no load output voltage will be lower. They will also not be able to produce as much current as the current is also proportional to the number of turns. What we're really interested in however is the current. My guess (only a guess) is that you're testing the no load voltage because it's too difficult to determine a good stator from impedance measurents.

[mixongw]

GK,

A heavy duty wound stator would produce more current but less voltage. longevity I cannot, at this time, comment on.
if the stator is properly wound and the wire insulation is of the proper high temp material, then I would think a HD stator would be totally acceptable.

when the heavier wire is used, without proper insulation, or a near perfect charging system "balance" (current output to current needed) I think one may run into troubles with durability.

I have yet to rewind a stator with heavier wire to test my idea's with, but it is my full intention in the future to do just that.

the HD stator would produce less voltage at lower rpm's, such as when the bike idles, but have more current available for use when needed for grips, vests, lights, radios ect.

in "my" opinion when a HD stator is used, it should be combined with one of the newer FET style R/R's, for better low rpm voltage, then you also should have higher current output available to be used. "again only when needed".

to know if you have a HD stator, you would have to know the bikes history, or inspect the stator...

Here is the way I understand this stator wire issue. Larger wire prevents getting the same number of turns on the poles. This will lower the no load output voltage some. However, the current capability is increased. It seems pretty obvious to me that we don't need 90VAC to be rectified by a half wave rectifier that gives us about 31.6 VDC. I know, I know... this is polyphase so my numbers are off but the argument still applies. A lower voltage will work just fine. Most of the excess power is dissapated in the stator wire resistance. A stator with larger wire will result in a "stiffer" power supply, as we used to call it in engineering terms. I think that the engineer that came up with this polyphase alternator feeding SCRs was on drugs. There has to be a better way.

[rustybronco]

The heavy duty stators you refer to may have less windings due to space limitations. In that case, then yes the no load output voltage will be lower. They will also not be able to produce as much current as the current is also proportional to the number of turns. What we're really interested in however is the current. My guess (only a guess) is that you're testing the no load voltage because it's too difficult to determine a good stator from impedance measurents.

There is a limitation to the number of turns that can be used on each pole because of the space constraints between each adjacent pole. using thicker wire (lower gauge number) on each pole will reduce the number of turns that will physically fit on each pole.

how much will the decrease in impedance, by using a larger diameter wire on the poles, increase the current flow in the stator (within the confines of the magnetic field used).
that is what I would like to find out.

[reddirtrider]

Guys the current is directly dependant on the number of turns. Decreasing turns will decrease current. The electomotive force (EMF) in volts will decrease when you reduce the turns. EMF and current are directly related.

If you have a source that states otherwise, please post it because I need to go back to school and inform my professors they lied to me.

[rustybronco]

I think that the engineer that came up with this polyphase alternator feeding SCRs was on drugs. There has to be a better way.

There is a limitation to the amount of the magnetic field produced by the rotor and the limitations of the insulation to consider. who knows what all went into the design considerations.

I believe it was Matchless that said, the engineers try to not to deviate from the theoretical maximum of the design.

but It still would have been nice if they would have used a excited field alternator...

***edit***

Guys the current is directly dependant on the number of turns. Decreasing turns will decrease current.

Time for me to open the books and study again.
I wish I hadn't been away from it for so long, it's has made me very RUSTY...

Thanks Reddirtrider.

[reddirtrider]

Time for me to open the books and study again.
I wish I hadn't been away from it for so long, it's has made me very RUSTY...

Thanks Reddirtrider.

No problem. As a side note, the wire gauge selected is based on what resistance is acceptable and the amount of current that you intend to produce. Well, these guys also had to take into consideration production costs, so they they probably used as small of a gauge as they could get away with.

The system isn't too shabby considering the trade offs they had to live with. Remember, thess are essentially 30+ year old designs.

[duaneage]

It would be a challenge to adapt a field coil system from another make or model onto a GS, but that would involve a lot of changes such as a different rotor. I'm curious as to whether any late model Suzuki engines with superior coil and rotor designs would retrofit to a GS. It would be a awesome upgrade. But that's beyond my paygrade and something for an owner of a boneyard to investigate.

[journerr]

Hi Everyone
Thanks so much for all the added info !!
LOTS of details to get into !!

Sorry for taking so long to post again in this thread
There are several factors influencing my delay
a) limited computer time
b) limited time to play mechanic
c) when there is time to play mechanic or computer, I'd rather be doing other things, one such thing is riding the bike, not working on it [[ I have been for another 250km ride since last posting -- I just charge the battery up & just ride //not stop a lot ]]
d) reluctance to delve into this electrical thing -- I am NOT electrically savvy

But.....
with your expert guidance & encouragement
& out of sheer desperation for a bike that starts,
I did manage to get some test results, as follows:

Trickle charged battery to capacity.
Immediate reading = 12.85
6 hours later, still NOT connected to bike = 12.46
3 hours later, still NOT connected to bike = 12.42
connected to bike, ignition OFF = 12.42

connected to bike, ignition ON = 11.62, 11.63 11.64,11.65
connected to bike, ignition ON (try #2) = 11.76, 11.77,11.78,11.79, 11.80
and it settled at 11.80

while hitting starter = 10.25 -11.15
bike running, 5000rpm = 12.06, 12.07 (steady)

I haven't been able to get the stator wires out of the harness to access them for the wire tests there. .... maybe over the weekend.

And, just for the sake of sharing & maybe a smile on someones part out there .........
It was interesting enough trying to balance the battery 1/2 in the battery box, 1/2 out so that I could reach both terminals; this accomplished by resting my right foot on the peg, while at the same time getting a firm connection to each terminal with the VOM, while at the same time squeezing the clutch & hitting the starter button ............... obviously a 3rd &/or 4th hand would have come in handy !!!!

Any input from the above info ???

Thanks again,
Brightest Blessings

[Steve]

... while at the same time squeezing the clutch & hitting the starter button ...

One other thing that will help you in the long run is to bypass your clutch safety switch so you don't have to pull the clutch to engage the starter.

It's a very easy process, just remove the headlight, trace the wires that come from the clutch switch into the headlight housing, disconnect them from the main harness, then connect the two connectors in the main harness together, instead of into the clutch switch. Don't forget to put the headlight back in.

.

[journerr]

Steve -- Thank you for the suggestion of bypassing the clutch safety switch, and the intstructions on how to do so

GS1100GK -- Thank you for your input & further advice. It is greatly appreciated.
- battery is new in May, but could very well be tired &/or damaged from running it since then with the charging system not working
- my bike does not have a headlight switch, the headlight is on all the time -- were you suggesting to test the battery with ignition on/bike running/ headlight disconnected ?
- I can see the 3 stator wires in a harness coming out of the stator cover/clutch cover seam, I will test or get the stator tested soon and report the findings
- I will follow the rest of your suggestions too, and report back [[well, except for your suggestion that I have to rest my LEFT foot on the peg to balance the battery while simutaneously perfoming other acrobatics & battery tests - that made me smile, thanks]]

Thanks again for the support !!
Brightest Blessings

[igotspam2]

When I had charging problems after cleaning all electrical connections, I checked the rectifier then the stator. I found when checking for continuity between the three stator wires and seeing that I Had continuity between them I knew my stator was Bad. There should be NO continuity between stator wires per the Suzuki service manual. Bike wont have to be running for this test. Ordered a new one , easy install, no more problem. Runs better too. If you have access to a manual it should outline the simple tests to be done. Good luck!

[reddirtrider]

When I had charging problems after cleaning all electrical connections, I checked the rectifier then the stator. I found when checking for continuity between the three stator wires and seeing that I Had continuity between them I knew my stator was Bad. There should be NO continuity between stator wires per the Suzuki service manual. Bike wont have to be running for this test. Ordered a new one , easy install, no more problem. Runs better too. If you have access to a manual it should outline the simple tests to be done. Good luck!

You should have continuity between each phase of the stator. If you don't you have problems. The rsistance from each phase to ground should be open.