Need opinions on a clutch shaft oil seal puzzle ???

[Wallowgreen]

Do you have the bolt holes for the retaining plate?

Hey Chef, no, the bosses appear to be there but they aren't drilled or tapped, and this is partly the source of the confusion. Doing just that myself is what I meant by "performing a modification". I've ordered the OEM plate and the correct bolts to mount it with. I intend to measure the length of the bolts, drill at tap the casing to the dimensions and thread of the bolts, then attach the retaining plate with them as it should be.

Haven't seen this before, but personally, I'd source a seal that fits correctly from a seal supplier. You'll probably have the best luck finding a seal to fit in that metal disk.

This is a place near me (located in a suburb just north of Indy) where I've gotten several metric seals I didn't feel like waiting for:
http://www.metric-seals.com
I don't know if there's a similar place near you, or if Metric Seals will work with you over the phone.

Also, McMaster-Carr has a limited selection of metric seals and a lot of inch size seals:
http://www.mcmaster.com

Or perhaps you could visit an old school auto parts store, like CarQuest or Napa, and see if they can help you.

Hi bwringer, all good info I'll check into these leads I hadn't considered a third party supplier to this point. As for there being anything around here - I'll just say, sadly, very unlikely.

Sounds like the seal will work as long as you can keep it in the hole. You obviously need to fashion some sort of plate to fit over the seal like the OE plate. That boss on the crankcase could be drilled and tapped pretty easily. Using JB Weld is also a good idea. Epoxy's like that break down pretty easy with heat so I wouldn't worry about getting it off again some day - a quick hit with a propane torch or a heat gun will allow you to remove the plate.

Guess I'd wait until the OE plate you ordered comes and then figure out the best way to attach it to the engine. Shouldn't be too hard.

Good luck.

Hey Nessism, I kind of feel the OEM seal will work as well so long as I can take up the slop in the diameters with some sealant goop up to the task. Not convinced permatex or the like will be good enough at that kind of thickness even when the retention force is handled by the retaining plate. The JB weld comment was in response to me asking if local dealers/shops/service departments had anything like a permanent bond/glue I could use as both a gasket type sealer and be strong enough to hold the seal in against the pressure behind so I wouldn't need to order the plate and wait again. It wasn't to hold the retainer plate to the casing if that's what I put across with what I wrote. I asked those kind of questions while I still held out some hope I might be able to get the job done with what I had without ordering more parts. Alas, given up on that and intend to do the "mod" I talked about above to bolt the plate on. Like you suggest, I don't think it'll be too hard with the right size bit and tap.

Think permatex will provide a seal at the perimeter being around 0.55mm thickness all around?

[Nessism]

Hey Chef, no, the bosses appear to be there but they aren't drilled or tapped, and this is partly the source of the confusion. Doing just that myself is what I meant by "performing a modification". I've ordered the OEM plate and the correct bolts to mount it with. I intend to measure the length of the bolts, drill at tap the casing to the dimensions and thread of the bolts, then attach the retaining plate with them as it should be.



Hi bwringer, all good info I'll check into these leads I hadn't considered a third party supplier to this point. As for there being anything around here - I'll just say, sadly, very unlikely.



Hey Nessism, I kind of feel the OEM seal will work as well so long as I can take up the slop in the diameters with some sealant goop up to the task. Not convinced permatex or the like will be good enough at that kind of thickness even when the retention force is handled by the retaining plate. The JB weld comment was in response to me asking if local dealers/shops/service departments had anything like a permanent bond/glue I could use as both a gasket type sealer and be strong enough to hold the seal in against the pressure behind so I wouldn't need to order the plate and wait again. It wasn't to hold the retainer plate to the casing if that's what I put across with what I wrote. I asked those kind of questions while I still held out some hope I might be able to get the job done with what I had without ordering more parts. Alas, given up on that and intend to do the "mod" I talked about above to bolt the plate on. Like you suggest, I don't think it'll be too hard with the right size bit and tap.

Think permatex will provide a seal at the perimeter being around 0.55mm thickness all around?

That's too much gap to try to fill with sealant goop I think.

Do you know anyone with a lathe? Maybe make up a shim to press into the hole so the seal will fit snug like it should?

[chef1366]

Don't drill too deep!

[Wallowgreen]

Don't drill too deep!

Yeah, no kiddin

Nessism has prompted some more thought. I've mentioned the original washer is 32.45mm diameter but also that it's tapered across it's 4mm thickness towards the inside of the case. The diameter of the washer at this internal face measures 31.90mm. The new seal diameter is 31.31mm so the tolerance slop is down to 0.3mm all around.

From the marks in the hole when the washer was removed, it was the internal edge that made the interference fit with the hole. Does that convince anyone other than me that the hole must also be tapered and the diameter gets smaller the deeper you get into the hole?

I did try but I've not been able to get anything in there well enough to get a decent measurement of the internal diameter of the hole. I'll ponder some more and ask around at work, never know there might be some laser measurement gizmo I can borrow.

[psyguy]

i'm with brian and would want to get the appropriate seal rather than fiddle with things and posibly get past the point of no return

i guess it's possible you have the seal that goes on the models WITH the plate and you need a different one

i think someone suggested that parts fiche numbers actually refer to the dimensions (i know this is true for bolt sizes but not sure for seals) so worth checking i guess

[rustybronco]

Pictures of P/N 09285-06011 for your viewing pleasure.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/2983514724_2db1d16a13.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3283/2982657483_9a8e57fb0f.jpg

now all that is needed is the O.D. measurement...

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=237876

"53 -09285-06011 SEAL, CLUTCH PUSH ROD" Atkielskid@yahoo.com
maybe they would be so kind to measure one of the 53 they have.

alpha-sports.com > 2000 > gsx-r750y > clutch... p/n 09285-06011 no retainer used!

[Wallowgreen]

Pictures of P/N 09285-06011 for your viewing pleasure.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/2983514724_2db1d16a13.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3283/2982657483_9a8e57fb0f.jpg

now all that is needed is the O.D. measurement...

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=237876

"53 -09285-06011 SEAL, CLUTCH PUSH ROD" Atkielskid@yahoo.com
maybe they would be so kind to measure one of the 53 they have.

alpha-sports.com > 2000 > gsx-r750y > clutch... p/n 09285-06011 no retainer used!

Thanks for this rustybronco, just emailed the guy asking for OD and ID measurements and also a cost to ship one out to me. If it's close, I'll get one in hand and see how things stack up when I have everything we can think of.

Be nice if things were simple wouldn't it?

[rustybronco]

if the -06011 seal is a 34mm OD seal??? 34.0mm-32.44= 1.56mm or .061 do you think there's 30 thou of coating material on your ill fitting replacement seal?

Be nice if things were simple wouldn't it?

Since when have you been that lucky?

[Wallowgreen]

if the -06011 seal is a 34mm OD seal??? 34.0mm-32.44= 1.56mm or .061 do you think there's 30 thou of coating material on your ill fitting replacement seal?

Not sure and not easy to tell, just had a look. I think I could make it work, I'd much rather it be a tight interference fit than a loose one. When looking from the back the construction of the seal I have seems to be a hard rubber coating over a metal washer disc type core. The sides of the seal toward what would be the inside of the casing seem to give a little when I push with finger pressure. Ocurred to me that the perimeter of this type seal may be designed to deform slightly to fit any taper in the hole and that would call for a seal slightly larger than needed - right? At least if I hit it hard enough and the way this is going, I don't think that'll be a problem

Since when have you been that lucky?

You know me too well obviously

[rustybronco]

Ocurred to me that the perimeter of this type seal may be designed to deform slightly to fit any taper in the hole and that would call for a seal slightly larger than needed - right?

correct.

At least if I hit it hard enough and the way this is going, I don't think that'll be a problem

Now your thinking! I'd borrow you my favorite 48oz hammer but I broke the handle.

(the Gents that came up with a fiberglass handle took all the fun away of seeing the head fly off into the night)

[Wallowgreen]

Puzzle is solved

Went to the dealers to pick up the retaining plate and the two bolts yesterday and while I was there I asked about other seals that might work with a slightly larger OD. Got the typical response from the nob on the parts desk but luckily a guy from the service department happened to be standing there listening to the conversation. He chipped in and asked what I was trying to get done so I went through the whole sorry story with him. Blow me down he was actually interested . He took me over to the service department, dug out their workshop manual so I could show him the pictures and compared that to what was shown on the fische. When I'd gotten him to where I was, he dissappeared out the back for about 15 minutes, then came back with the following service bulletin in his hand for me to keep:






Seems there's another page but that's all he could find. There's no mention of being able to modify an early crankcase to accept the retaining plate in fact the bulletin warns against it but the line drawing shown on the bulletin for early type case does not show the bosses that are present on my case. From what we can tell, the OD of both types of seal are also the same. There seems no reason why the bosses in my cases can't be drilled and tapped to accept the retainer plate and use the new type seal (so long as they actually are in the correct place when I line up the plate) so I'm going to try it. It may all turn to shyte but it's either that or split the cases so I don't think I have much to lose. If I screw up the case then I'll split them then and use the case from a spare motor I have a line on and have arranged to pick up on Monday.

[rustybronco]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=152351

you've got the bulletin #. call Suzuki and ask if they can supply a copy that includes page 4.

if not I'll stop by the local dealership and see if they have a complete copy of the bulletin.

[Rkt-Rch]

Ditto different year... 85 GS700ES

Just did this seal recently, Simular pictures are in my album..

[psyguy]

i guess it's possible you have the seal that goes on the models WITH the plate and you need a different one

you kind of lost me with wanting to install that plate now that it's obvious there are two different seals used for that application

why not just get the right seal ?

[Wallowgreen]

you kind of lost me with wanting to install that plate now that it's obvious there are two different seals used for that application

why not just get the right seal ?

Came down to a straight choice between two options:
1 - get the old type seal with the flange which I don't have and split the cases to fit it
or
2 - get the new type seal, which I already have, and fit the retaining plate, which I already have

I decided on option 2 because:
1 - the OD of both seals is the same (ignoring the flange)
2 - drilling and tapping the two bosses to fit the retainer is a hell of a lot less work than splitting the cases
3 - what came out wasn't actually the flanged or non flanged seal but some kind of hardened steel washer with a center seal insert
4 - if I screw up I have a spare engine I'm picking up on Monday to get another case from