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    #31
    Valvoline "Not for Street use" oils, have a much higher concentration. (available at NAPA)

    Here is a small excerpt from a Porche site:

    "Oil companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives and switching to alternative zinc-free (ZF) additives and ash-less dispersants in their new low SAPS oils since Zn, P, and sulfated ash have been found to be bad for catalytic converters. One such ZF dispersant/anti-wear additive is boron, which does not foul the catalysts in the particulate emissions filters or catalytic converters. For most owners, the reduction in longevity of a catalytic converter is a small price to pay considering the many thousands of dollars it costs to properly rebuild a Porsche engine. It is worth noting that most Porsches have lived the majority of their lives with high Zn and P oils as found in API SG-SJ oils as late as 2004, and we never hear of problems with their catalytic converters.

    In addition to protecting emissions controls, there are many other design considerations in formulating engine lubricants, which include improving fuel economy and longer drain intervals. Many believe that the EPA has banned zinc and phosphorus in motor oils. This is not true. In response to modern engine design and longer emission control warranties which are required by the EPA, manufacturers have turned to reformulation of oils to do this, as well as to improve fuel economy by reducing fiction. High friction can result in areas with boundary lubrication or where high viscous friction forces and drag may occur with hydrodynamic lubrication in bearings. The use of friction modifiers, such as moly (there are many different species of Mo-based friction modifiers, help to reduce friction in metal-to-metal contact with the formation of tribofilms characterized with their glassy, slippery surfaces. Lower viscosity motor oils are key to increasing fuel economy by their reduction in drag where high viscous friction occurs in hydrodynamic lubrication. While lower viscosities improve fuel economy greatly, they also reduce the hydrodynamic film strength and high temperature high shear viscosity of the motor oil, factors both of which are key to protecting high performance engines, especially aircooled ones.

    However, it is worth noting that these new API guidelines do not need apply to “racing,” “severe duty,” or any motor oils that do not carry an API “starburst” seal or clearly state for off-road-use only. Motor oils meeting “Energy Conserving I or II” standards should be avoided as well as those with an API SM or ILSAC GF-4 classifications. The European ACEA A3/B3 "mid-SAPS" classifications, which place a cap on P levels at 0.10-0.12% but allow for higher Zn levels, to be better in taking into consideration wear and engine longevity, setting much lower wear limits, while still limiting emissions and protecting emissions control devices. The current ACEA A3/B3 classifications require higher high-temperature high-shear (HTHS) viscosities, stay in grade sheer stability, and tighter limits on evaporative loss (noack volatility), high temperature oxidation, and piston varnish. This makes oils meeting these ACEA standards that much better for your Porsche, especially since wear limits are much more stringent for valve train wear, 1/6th to 1/4th the wear allowed in the sequences for API's newest SM or CJ-4 standards. Of particular interest is the upcoming ACEA E9 which will incorporate some of the improvements in the CJ-4 standard along with higher Zn and P, making these mid-SAPS oils an excellent choice for older legacy engines."

    Might not be good for extended use as they might affect the wet clutch.
    Honda's seem to be especially susceptible.
    I have never had a problem with the Suzuki clutches though.

    Eric


    Link to article: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

    Comment


      #32
      Oil wars....

      To avoid the oil wars here, I will only say what I do on break in, I lube cylinders with 10w non-detergent before assy..

      I use a 10w oil, non-detergent, spin the engine without plugs and ensure solid oil pressure, install plugs, fire engine, no throttle, idle five minutes, hold at 2000 RPM five minutes, vary RPM five minutes. The engine will be rather warm at this point.. Shutdown, drain oil, check metal content, change filter, and oil to a 10-40w (no brand mentioned), ride it, don't over rev, or lug at any RPM.. 600 miles later change again, then ride it like you stole it...

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by ranger rick View Post
        DO NOT INSTALL YOUR PISTONS AND RINGS DRY!!!!! you'll chew up your rings and jugs at fire up.,no sustained high rpm operation for the first 100 miles or so
        EVERY engine I build I put together with the rings dry. I haven't had a single one chew up rings or cylinders yet! I also RPM the snot out of them after a 15 minute 2500 rpm cam break in period. Haven't had one fail or not get ring seal this way! In fact after the first hard runs I have less than 5% leakdown on my engines. Usually it's even less than 5%. I'm just curious if you get your info for the above statements from experience at building engines or just what someone "told" you? Also, at this point in time I am wondering about the validity of synthetic oils preventing ring seal during break in because I know that Porsche & Corvettes COME with Mobil 1 installed from the factories! As synthetic oils go, Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil! Ray.

        Comment


          #34
          Ray, rings dry and cylinders oiled down?
          Isn't that in effect... wet?

          Eric

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by rapidray View Post
            EVERY engine I build I put together with the rings dry. I haven't had a single one chew up rings or cylinders yet! I also RPM the snot out of them after a 15 minute 2500 rpm cam break in period. Haven't had one fail or not get ring seal this way! In fact after the first hard runs I have less than 5% leakdown on my engines. Usually it's even less than 5%. I'm just curious if you get your info for the above statements from experience at building engines or just what someone "told" you? Also, at this point in time I am wondering about the validity of synthetic oils preventing ring seal during break in because I know that Porsche & Corvettes COME with Mobil 1 installed from the factories! As synthetic oils go, Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil! Ray.
            Hey Ray,
            Wondering where you are getting this stuff about "Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil"? Is this something you gained though experience or something someone "told" you?
            Ed

            To measure is to know.

            Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

            Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

            Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

            KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

            Comment


              #36
              Sorry Ed, it was a "bearing load test" video done by an unbiased test team. They tested a bunch of different oils that are "supposed" to be good oils. I will try to find a link to the video. Mobil 1 did NOT test as well as some thought it would. Neither did Motul! Eric, dry rings AND cylinders. Ray.

              Comment


                #37
                Now?

                I guess I may as well join the oil war, nothing better to do...

                I would go with Amsoil in a synthetic, although Royal Purple is good also, except for their high moly levels, which cause a tad of sludge.. Mobil one is OK, if you cannot find anything else... For these old GS's I would stick to conventional oil, Castrol 10-40, all depending on level of performance and age... JMHO, everybody has opinions, they are just like a arseholes.. Light the fire.. Testing shows my choice of Amsoil superior...

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by rapidray View Post
                  As synthetic oils go, Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil! Ray.
                  Originally posted by Nessism View Post
                  Hey Ray,
                  Wondering where you are getting this stuff about "Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil"? Is this something you gained though experience or something someone "told" you?
                  Not looking to get into any deep oil debates here, but like Castrol Syntec, Mobil 1 is often looked down upon by manufacturers and consumers of 'true' synthetic (made from synthetic base stock) lubricants. After Castrol came out victorious from the litigation enabling them to define their super-refined dino oil as synthetic, it is believed that Mobil 1 also changed their formulation (AFAIK, the company has refused to confirm or deny this), abandoning the use of expensive synthetic base for the cheaper alternative. The N. American Castrol Syntec cannot be sold in Europe as a synthetic, as their definition of synthetic oil is not the same as the new loose American one....not sure if Mobil 1's formulation is the same for both continents, but a quick look at a container will reveal that....if it specifically states "Not for sale in Europe", it's a safe bet it isn't.
                  Tony.
                  '82 GS1100E



                  Comment


                    #39
                    Ponderosa, I use Castrol GTX 20/50 in my dragbikes, but I change it every weekend I run the bikes. I also agree with you on the Amsoil & the Royal Purple. The Royal Purple tested the best on the bearing load test I referred to above! I didn't realize it is high in Moly content though. For you 2 stroke guys out there, Amsoil has a full synthetic 2 stroke oil that I run at 100 to 1 & it makes a TON of power with absolutely NO wear on parts! As long as you are jetted correctly anyway, but if you weren't, you couldn't blame parts failures on the oil! Ray.
                    Last edited by rapidray; 03-19-2010, 01:39 PM.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Good info, Tony! Ray.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        I got my information from my training in the military,you know ,people who's lives depend on their engine working when they're being SHOT at.people who are notorious for abusing their engines.then there was the two year technical college I attended on my g.i. bill.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Ponderosa View Post
                          Testing shows my choice of Amsoil superior...
                          I don't know if it's a superior oil, but the 20w50 Amsoil I used was very shear stable for over 5,000 miles.

                          (my good old seat of the pants testing FWIW)
                          De-stinking Penelope http://thegsresources.com/_forum/sho...d.php?t=179245

                          http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...35#post1625535

                          Comment


                            #43
                            this comes from one of the many engine rebuild manuals on my shelf and I quote(BREAKING IT IN-make the first miles on the new engine easy ones,vary the speed but do not accelerate hard. most importantly,do not lug the engine,and avoid sustained high speed operation until at least 100 miles. check the engine oiland coolant levels frequently.expext the engine to use a little oil until the rings seat. change the oil and filter at 500 miles,1500miles,then every 3000 miles past that.)by the way that was from a FACTORY MANUAL. cheers

                            Comment


                              #44
                              and rember when it comes to moving parts-metal on metal contact is bad juju

                              Comment


                                #45
                                I'm a member of probably 10-15 different web forums concerning various types of internal-combustion engine restoration/maintenance/repair/performance upgrades.

                                I am amazed with the vast differences of opinion and philosophy on the topics of break-in procedure and oil selection.
                                Very entertaining.

                                And informative, once one sorts through the vitriol and gets to the results of actual empirical testing, that are relevant to the engine type one is concerned with.

                                I have nothing else to add, or opinions to share.
                                Carry on.

                                .

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