tank cleaning

[almarconi]

dude!!! muriatic acid is what you want!! go to the pool section of wallymart

You do not want to use muriatic acid aka hydrochloric acid to clean your tank. The vapors from the HCL will combine with any moisture on the metal causing even more rust to form. The vapors from the acid will remove the layer of oxide that are one on the steel and give it a hazy or etched appearance. It is also hell on painted surfaces. You must also be careful to neutralize any of the acid (use baking soda or TSP solution) as well as the vapors because the vapors can cause nearby items to rust. It is better to avoid handling or using this stuff in the first place.

Use a solution of dilute phosphoric acid. The phosphoric acid will attack the rust and not harm the clean metal. After you remove the phosphoric acid the previously rusted metal will be coated with a phosphate coating.

To plug the petcock hole, cut a plate out of sheetmetal and use a scrap of rubber for a gasket. Drill a couple of holes in the same location as the petcock and tighten it up.

Another method that really work well is electrolysis. Google electrolysis setup for a description of the method.

Another product that work is Evaporust..much safer than the acid and better for the environment.

[Nessism]

Plug the petcock hole using a plate of metal and a sheet of rubber. Cut metal to cover the hole and drill holes to match the petcock spacing.

To plug the top opening, get a large rubber stopper from Lowe's or similar. My stopper is drilled down the middle for a long screw to which I attached a crosswise metal piece that is drilled/tapped in the middle. This crosswise metal piece needs to be slightly wider across than the opening on the tank so it will catch inside the tank when you tighten the bolt. Make sense?

To remove a failed coating attempt, you need paint stripper. I did this on a bad Por-15 job and it worked but took a long time and lots of aggravation. Some aquarium rocks in the tank helps break up the coating - works much better than using nuts/bolts/screws. I'm getting ready to do another tank like this and not looking forward to it.

[Buffalo Bill]

This is the right way.

Evapo-Rust is good stuff. It's reusable so don't throw it away. Not sure about your tank but when using Evapo-Rust on a few parts it did take some time to work. Don't be worried about leaving it in the tank for longer than a day. Just rotate the tank every few hours until all the rust is gone. You can have a look inside the tank by peering in through the petcock and sender unit holes - put a strong flashlight shining in the main fill opening and you will have enough light to see in through the various holes. Worked for me anyway.

I followed your advice, and just finished my GS550T tank using this stuff. Non toxic and not corrosive, A+. It had superficial rust. I set the tank down for 24hrs, for each of the 6 sides, slow but no matter, as I am still waiting for my first parts order. I fastend a cotton rag onto a heavy wire, put that through the filler hole, and used it to wipe rust off the center hump. I sifoned out the liquid, back into the bottle, as it can be used again.
No burns, no accidental damage.

[biker_guy]

so will any of this stuff remove the red-kote stuff or will only MEK do that?

[cloudbreakmd]

I bought a POR kit a little while back. It came with metal ready and marine clean. I had planned on using the metal ready but if you think the Evaporust will work better then I will buy that instead. Mind you the tank I am working on his heavily rusted inside from sitting with a half a tank of fuel in it for 5 years outside. No leaks whatsoever and amazingly the paint looks brand new.

If I use evaporust, do I still have to coat the inside or will keeping the tank full suffice?

[almarconi]

Coating is really not necessary unless you have pinholes/leaks in the tank. Clean out the tank and see what it looks like. I would probe the underside of the tank as well as the seams to make sure the metal is still solid. If you are going to store the tank over the winter, fill it to the top with gas and add some stabil. I believe the marine clean is a degreaser and the metal ready is basically phosphoric acid. I usually use a pressure washer with some detergent to clean the tank out first. This get rid of alot of large scale and dirt. Then cover all the holes and add your acid. If you are using concentrated phosporic always fill the tank about 3/4 full with water and then add the acid NOT the other way around. Let it soak overnight and then drain off the liquid. Make sure to wear an apron, gloves and googles so you don't get any on you. Rinse the tank out with the pressure washer and see what the metal looks like. If its clean looking either fill the tank with gas or spray the metal with some WD40 or other light oil.

[almarconi]

Hey cloudbreakmd... Did you ever get your bike running? I know you were having some coil/spark issues.

[rodm850g]

tank coating

Guys,
A last note on this from me .....after yopu treat your tanks and you are ready for fuel add an inline fuel filter....one poster mentioned finding rust in float bowls....and as Neil Young said "rust never sleeps" yeah I read that in one of the ads...but it is true and a good filter will give a measure of relief....it may not stop all of it but if you clean,seal your tank hopefully the rust problem will be solved....I would also further caution the use of MEK or methyl ethyl ketone is very dangerous.....as a fire fighter {now retired} we had to take a Haz-Mat training class or two along with recert classes....the instructor always harped on if anything {chemical or substance } started out with methyl ethyl it was toxic to human life....
nuff said on that.
Something I didn't mention I did as a precaution, someone mentioned was sealing the tank to put the sealant in....I went to the autobody paint store and got me a pair of "bondo spreaders" you know the flat yellow plastic things....they will give them to you if you are buying paint or sealing products....cut to fit.....and my lil trick was to wrap the bolts and the threadsup in a liberal {not a good term in many places} coating of anti sieze compound...the POR-15 product is thin enough to get into threads and bugger them up same on bolt threads....So good luck all with your winter work.....I'm down to receiving a set of stainless bolts for my GS850, and then a coat of paint some stripes then some clear.....I can't wait to debut my GS850GN.....makes me wonder about a fellow who will spend a minor fortune on a bike thats worth 1500-1800 bucks at best.....but the proof as they say is in the pudding....the old boy lasted me 20 years before I put him in storage .....if I can get another 20 years out of it....I'll get my money back.....
Rodm850g

[cloudbreakmd]

Hey cloudbreakmd... Did you ever get your bike running? I know you were having some coil/spark issues.

No

I'm not giving up but my schedule has been more than hectic lately. I will probably start tooling with it again this weekend.

[Nessism]

Started refurbing an old 1000S tank last night that has a failed Kreem job inside. Dumped in a quart of paint stripper and it seems to be eating off the coating pretty well. I stripped out some POR sealer before on another tank and it was much tougher to remove.

The base metal in the tank has deep rust but no holes…I think. I have some phosphoric acid and some Evapo-Rust but guess I’ll try the E-R first and see how it goes. Don’t want to remove any of the good metal, just get rid of the rust. Using Muratic acid will remove good metal along with the rust so be careful if anyone chooses this route. Oxalic acid (commonly available as deck cleaner) is another choice.

I did a tank earlier in the year using phosphoric acid, which eats off some of the rust and converts it to iron phosphate. I left the solution in the tank until the rust was gone, not just a short time to etch the surface like the sealer kits suggest. I think removing as much rust as possible is the key to getting lasting results. In addition, I sealed over the surface after the rust was converted because I don’t trust it to not rust further. This S tank is much worse than the other tank I did so fingers crossed on this one.

[rustybronco]

Oxalic acid (commonly available as deck cleaner) is another choice.

Well you learn something every day.
that is one of the ingredients needed for my clock cleaning solution.

[Nessism]

Paint stripper has loosened up most of the old Kreem in my tank. The aquarium rocks I dumped in to help scourer the metal surface really helps. The challenge is getting the hump portion of the tank clean since rotating the tank and sloshing the solution back and forth doesn’t get those rocks up on the reverse curved surfaces; the outer surface of the tank seems to be Kreem free, but I can see some residue on the hump. A screwdriver stuck in through the filler opening demonstrates that the remaining coating is soft but it’s not going to just fall off without some abrasion to scourer the surface. I’m going to try some water soluble paint stripper next with even more rocks – bought a bag of pea gravel from Lowe’s. Hopefully, the water soluble stripper will be strong enough to soften the last of that old Kreem, and being water soluble it should be easy to flush out before starting the derusting process. Shaking those rocks around inside the tank is a real workout, hopefully it won't be for much longer.

[mighty13d]

+5 billion on the in-line filter. I have always kept filters between the gas tank and carbs on everything i've owned. That includes bikes, ATVs, cars lawnmowers etc. Don't just guess that you got everything about and that nothing will fall into a carb and clog it up. If you throw a filter in there, anything coming out will be caught and all you have to do is pull out the filter and replace it!

That being said, I am not saying to not clean the tank. Just don't forget the filter.

[Nessism]

Problem with filters is that only a coarse filter will flow without fuel pressure. The type with a gold stone inside flow easily with a gravity feed fuel system, but they don't filter that great - rust will still get through and into the carbs.

[Nessism]

A little update for those that are interested.

After stripping out the old Kreem in my 1000S tank, I tried some Evapo-Rust first. I think this stuff is the way to go. Only issue is that you need to throw in some pea gravel or aquarium rocks to scour the metal because the Evapo-rust coats the metal with a rust colored film so it's hard to see if all the rust is gone yet.

I also experimented with some phosphoric acid as well. This stuff also does a good job of eating the rust but it leaves behind a chalky residue. After rinsing, some pea gravel is needed to scrub down the surface of the tank and remove the residue.

To coat my tank I used POR-15. Swished the stuff around for about 30 minuets and then dumped out as much as I could get out through the petcock hole. There was still enough to flow around so I kept rotating the tank to coat the inside and avoid a puddle on the bottom. The coating finally started to kick off after an hour or so - wound up with a nice thick layer. Good stuff. Used the left over stuff to hit some rust spots on the underside of a different gas tank. Waste not, want not.