Best Bang for the Buck?

[rapidray]

^^^^^^^^ What Terry said!!^^^^^^^ Do it RIGHT, do it ONCE!!
Ray.

 

[CivilRock]

With the amount of experience/knowledge here, does anyone know what I can expect from my 1100 with a set of RS36 carbs and a drop in cam? Considering it is street driven only is breaking the crank a very real possibility or not? Do I need an HD clutch basket or is that a nicety to be installed when the OEM basket gets tired?

The carbs themselves don't really add power. Maybe a little if your stock carbs were creating a restriction. But what they do is give you the ability to match the fueling needs of the motor as it demands more air/fuel. You will get more power from a performance cam, but I don't know how much, and of course there's dozens of different cams out there.

I've asked these same questions, and there's a lot of different answers. What I have heard over and over is that the sum of the parts is less than the whole as a tuned package. And every motor is different when you start getting down to the fine points. As in, you might see 7 more HP with cams, and 3 more HP with carbs, and 10 more HP with a big bore kit individually. But in the right hands, and with careful tuning, those mods add up to 30HP gains. This is just an example with made up numbers. I think I adapted the video game theory of modifications after playing some vids. Yes, it doesn't work that way in real life. I knew this before, and know it now, but it's easy to adapt that ideology from the games. It was Forza 3 I think.

For a street rod like you're thinking, I don't think you need a welded crank or clutch basket. What you WILL have is more ability to break those weak points once you start cranking up the available power. With great power comes great responsibility. You can ride around all day with 200HP on tap and never use/need it. But if you do use it, those are the things it's going to stress the most.

I personally would love to see you do those two mods. Even more, I'd love it if you used some sort of metric to gauge "before and after". My tool of choice was 1/4 mile "Late Night Drags". For $29 I got as many passes as I could take. That was 10, and I would have done more, but they closed. Stock 1100 motor with airbox and V&H street megaphone netted me 11.5 at 118 mph.

Check out page 2 of this guide. Especially look at the [1-7] notes for modified engines. I knew I was going to be doing 3-7 in the future, so I opted for the RS38s.
http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/rs_app_parts_lists.pdf

-Kevin

 

[blowerbike]

RS36's gives 3 tenth's over BS36mm with st.3 jet kit's on a stock 1150 with pipe.
clutch basket is mandatory.
have you ever had one blow up between your legs...not a pretty site.

 

[Guest]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=159576&highlight=historical+documents

If you want to see what things cost 20+ years ago, click the link...
Curt

 

[rapidray]

CivilRock, you need more experience before you state what is & isnt. 36 RSs are good for 10 hp by themselves on almost EVERY motor I have ever put them on. The one true thing is that the SUM of the CORRECT combination is where the power really comes from.
Ray.

 

[jimb12]

The carbs themselves don't really add power. Maybe a little if your stock carbs were creating a restriction.

That's the thing, the stock carbs *are* creating a restriction. On a stock motor GS1100ET, going from the 34 CVs with pods and Dynojet Stage 3 to RS34 Mikuni flatslides, it went .2sec quicker on the dragstrip with 4mph higher trap speed. Same bike, same rider, carburetor change=quicker bike.

 

[Guest]

Buy a late model Bandit.

They are only a little over 100hp stock and the clutch sucks on them also. The cranks are good But they are great bikes too.


Just stuff the Bandit motor in your chassis. The 89 GSXR1100 motor is the better motor to use though the have a much better clutch

 

[Guest]

That's the thing, the stock carbs *are* creating a restriction. On a stock motor GS1100ET, going from the 34 CVs with pods and Dynojet Stage 3 to RS34 Mikuni flatslides, it went .2sec quicker on the dragstrip with 4mph higher trap speed. Same bike, same rider, carburetor change=quicker bike.

I have seen better gains than that on a Kat 1000

Yes Kevin, Ray is correct you still have a lot to learn
The reason your not getting as much as you could from your 38RS carbs is that right now they are to big for your stock motor until you get some port work done.


.

 

[Guest]

Okay, if (when) she has to be opened up. But do you think I (my mechanic) should do those things now?

I mean, if I were to get the crank welded, I'd really have no excuse not to go big bore. And drop an extreme cam in. And port and polish the heads. Which would require a top end oiler. And a new wife.

We're talking about literally hundreds of dollars.

Thousands of dollars not hundreds

 

[Guest]

The carbs themselves don't really add power. Maybe a little if your stock carbs were creating a restriction. But what they do is give you the ability to match the fueling needs of the motor as it demands more air/fuel. You will get more power from a performance cam, but I don't know how much, and of course there's dozens of different cams out there.

I've asked these same questions, and there's a lot of different answers. What I have heard over and over is that the sum of the parts is less than the whole as a tuned package. And every motor is different when you start getting down to the fine points. As in, you might see 7 more HP with cams, and 3 more HP with carbs, and 10 more HP with a big bore kit individually. But in the right hands, and with careful tuning, those mods add up to 30HP gains. This is just an example with made up numbers. I think I adapted the video game theory of modifications after playing some vids. Yes, it doesn't work that way in real life. I knew this before, and know it now, but it's easy to adapt that ideology from the games. It was Forza 3 I think.

For a street rod like you're thinking, I don't think you need a welded crank or clutch basket. What you WILL have is more ability to break those weak points once you start cranking up the available power. With great power comes great responsibility. You can ride around all day with 200HP on tap and never use/need it. But if you do use it, those are the things it's going to stress the most.

I personally would love to see you do those two mods. Even more, I'd love it if you used some sort of metric to gauge "before and after". My tool of choice was 1/4 mile "Late Night Drags". For $29 I got as many passes as I could take. That was 10, and I would have done more, but they closed. Stock 1100 motor with airbox and V&H street megaphone netted me 11.5 at 118 mph.

Check out page 2 of this guide. Especially look at the [1-7] notes for modified engines. I knew I was going to be doing 3-7 in the future, so I opted for the RS38s.
http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/rs_app_parts_lists.pdf

-Kevin

Kevin,
I have seen completely stock GS1150 motors with just a pipe and re jetting grenade a clutch basket and break cranks when rode hard with lots of wheelies so to do not give out advice that you don't know facts about. If you keep drag racing with your stock motor you will break your clutch basket not you might you will break it. You should still be at the stage where you just listen to advice and not give it out. Please don't take this the wrong way I know you are new to bike building

For the OP your best bang for the buck would be carbs,cams, and a nice pipe without taking the motor apart. Then chassis work makes a big difference. If you still need more power the refer to my sig. On the 85 GS1150 build. But please, please get your crank and clutch basket welded first.
Nicely Done head work will make the biggest difference as it is the only thing that seperates two motors of the same build.


.

 

[blowerbike]

10.42 with stock WB 1150/.340 webs/RS36/kerker KX-2/16t front.
NO air shifter/NO strapped front/NO ignition/NO shift light...none of those..zero!
added 3" in the arm and dropped to a 14t front.
went 10.30 flat.
head had never been off.
i did many of these for people...they all ran the same with my rider.
many happy customers!
pre- internet...the good ole days

 

[Guest]

10.42 with stock WB 1150/.340 webs/RS36/kerker KX-2/16t front.
NO air shifter/NO strapped front/NO ignition/NO shift light...none of those..zero!
added 3" in the arm and dropped to a 14t front.
went 10.30 flat.
head had never been off.
i did many of these for people...they all ran the same with my rider.
many happy customers!
pre- internet...the good ole days

DING,Ding,ding we have a winner
Best bang for the buck by far. Did you do the clutch and crank with those mods?

I built a 68" wheel base 82 Katana chassis with a stock piston and cam motor and just a Nicely done street port 36rs carbs and pipe go 9.87 with a good rider

The 85GS1150 in my sig et 9.72 is with the stock wheel base and the only reason it is not quicker is I could not open it up in first or second gears as it would lift badly now I have 5" more wheel base with the Bandit extended swing arm so I am hoping for low 9's at least when I get it back to the track

 

[blowerbike]

billet falicon helical basket and HV pump gears.
OEM clutches with 3 gold barnett springs/3 stock springs.
the engine had never been apart except for the cam/clutch area.
this was 88-90 and my bike had 2k miles on it.
my brothers 1150 had st.3 kits and a V&H street pipe.
one night at the track he was running 11.0's like always...i popped my carbs on his bike and his next past was a 10.71...the quickest and fastest his bike has ever been.
1150's have always been easy for me to make power with having minimal cash to spend.

 

[Guest]

billet falicon helical basket and HV pump gears.
OEM clutches with 3 gold barnett springs/3 stock springs.
the engine had never been apart except for the cam/clutch area.
this was 88-90 and my bike had 2k miles on it.
my brothers 1150 had st.3 kits and a V&H street pipe.
one night at the track he was running 11.0's like always...i popped my carbs on his bike and his next past was a 10.71...the quickest and fastest his bike has ever been.
1150's have always been easy for me to make power with having minimal cash to spend.

Yes but those RS carbs are not cheep any more.
It is hard not to make good power from a great GS platform to start with.
I don't even have a manual on the GS1100/1150 any more it is imbedded in my brain. I like the Bandits also. They are like an 1150 with the bottom end problems fixed. The clutch is weak but it won't blow up the basket though it just slips when you add more power. It is an easy fix with a clutch from a 89 GSXR1100 or a 02 to 05 GSXR750 clutch swap. I did the 89 GSXR1100 clutch swap on my 98 Bandit 1216 and my 02 Bandit had the GSXR750 clutch installed in it when I bought it both have the hydraulics swapped for cable conversion.

A motor swap might be the OP's cheapest way to go with a Bandit stock 1200 motors going for anywhere from $500 to $1500. I just picked up another Bandit 1200 motor a couple months ago for $400 but the bike it came out of was wrecked and one side of the motor had road rash on it and the covers were messed up. But it was to good of a deal not to jump on it. There is another 1200 motor for $500 up by Tampa but I haven't gone to look yet. I am Bandit motor loaded right now.
Good god I am becoming a hoarder.


,

 

[silverbullet132]

Sorry for the thread jack, but what do you guys think about this list (in no perticular order, just what I want to do on my gs11 once I sell my ZX12):

-APE trac king billet clutch w/ straight cut gears
-APE HD cylinder studs
-APE HD main bearing studs
-APE big block
-JE 11.7:1 83mm (1428cc) pistons or maybe 13.5:1
-back cut or race cut trans
-GSXR curved oil cooler

Would a billet output shaft be required with a setup like the above? Did not include head work in the above list. I assume I would also need 40mm carbs to take advantage of that setup?

 

[blowerbike]

i say you better have deeeep pockets.
starting from scratch will kill a credit card FAST!
find an engine done and buy it for a 3rd of what it cost to build.
IMO it's overkill unless your gonna street race or race it in general.
a little work and a used turbo kit will give bigger gains and run cooler but i like turbo's

 

[Rob S.]

That's the thing, the stock carbs *are* creating a restriction. On a stock motor GS1100ET, going from the 34 CVs with pods and Dynojet Stage 3 to RS34 Mikuni flatslides, it went .2sec quicker on the dragstrip with 4mph higher trap speed. Same bike, same rider, carburetor change=quicker bike.

My bike has, I believe the stock Mikuni CV34s. From the info in my sig, what carbs would you recommend, and how much additional rear wheel HP do you think could be squeezed from them?

 

[Guest]

Sorry for the thread jack, but what do you guys think about this list (in no perticular order, just what I want to do on my gs11 once I sell my ZX12):

-APE trac king billet clutch w/ straight cut gears
-APE HD cylinder studs
-APE HD main bearing studs
-APE big block
-JE 11.7:1 83mm (1428cc) pistons or maybe 13.5:1
-back cut or race cut trans
-GSXR curved oil cooler

Would a billet output shaft be required with a setup like the above? Did not include head work in the above list. I assume I would also need 40mm carbs to take advantage of that setup?

I used the billet shaft on mine. I would use the 11.7 to 1 pistons unless the bike is for racing only. Some Katana rods would help. And look for an 1150 head to build with 29.5/25 valves and some G7/G9 and some keihins FCR 41mm

 

[Guest]

i say you better have deeeep pockets.
starting from scratch will kill a credit card FAST!
find an engine done and buy it for a 3rd of what it cost to build.
IMO it's overkill unless your gonna street race or race it in general.
a little work and a used turbo kit will give bigger gains and run cooler but i like turbo's

The only problem with that is if you buy used stuff then you have to tear it apart to make sure everything is in good shape. But you can save a bundle buying used stuff. I built my 85 GS1150 and my 98 Bandit with mostly used parts. But I don't buy used cams not very often. What Most guys think is a good cam is junk to me. Worn cams will eat up your rockers in a heart beat.

 

[Guest]

Why not just buy a bike made for speed? Most any modern 600cc sport bike will do what you want and then some without the hassle or worries of trying to make an old bike fast. Plus it'll stop and handle better than most any classic GS.