Charging Problems

[danbobberino]

Questions about charging issues...

First off, I have a 1979 Suzuki GS550E manufactured Jan 79. It's strange because it looks like the "L" model (seat and handlebars). A little background on myself - I have a Clymer manual and I am a journeyman electrician but not very mechanically savvy yet...

The battery went dead on me the other day so I replaced the battery with a new one. Since I've realized as I've been driving it the horn doesn't work and the headlight gets dim and gets to the point that it doesn't work - I believe the battery isn't charging..

I did a Clymer Manual System Output Test - the manual says: "only 2 phases of the alternator charge unless the headlight is on so it says to connect the white/green wire from the alternator to the white/red wire from the rectifier. This bypasses the light switch and connects all 3 phases of the alternator output to the rectifier"
- I did this and it says I should read 16.5V at 5,000RPM or more if the alternator and rectifier is good - I was at 11.8 if I remember correctly. This tells me the bike is not charging which is what I thought....

The next thing it says to do is to check the rectifier - if the rectifier is fine then the alternator is not working. I understand how a three phase bridge rectifier works and how forward bias diodes will read low resistance and reverse bias they should read high resistance.

The trouble is, I cannot find a rectifier - I only see one part under my side covers - a Kokusan Denki RS2142 (says 12V regulator on it). Is this an aftermarket rectifier/regulator in one or is there a rectifier somewhere else for me to check and this is only the regulator?

The Suzuki Dealer in town is telling me a stator that they think is the right one is $271 plus tax (part number 31401-45030) and rectifier is $251.99 (part number 32800-44010).

Basically I would like to figure out whether it is the alternator or rectifier causing issues and then determine what part number I actually need or where I could find a good deal on one that would work. I'd love to spend as little money as possible as I'm sure there will be other things to fix - I already put a $150 coil in the bike and ordered 4 carb kits for about $100.

Could anyone have a bit of a conversation with me here and help me out?

Thanks,
-Danny

 

[robertbarr]

Don't buy either OEM charging component, try to cancel the order for the carb kits (or return them), and wait for Posplayer to drop by with links to all the good info available here. You'll be able to make a far better remedy for much less money.

Since you're a journeyman electrician, I can assume you have a good quality DMM, so you're ahead there too. Just don't do anything rash financially until you've done some reading here. You're in luck in the sense that the dependable fixes are also the less expensive ones.

 

[posplayr]

Dump the clymer manual

Do the Quick Test (in my signature).

You can also read GS Charging Health

If you post the 6 numbers from the Quick test we can narrow down the diagnosis.

 

[1948man]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrospor...ash=item2f01e44b10:g:SOsAAOSwVm5Y9Qj~&vxp=mtr

Just ordered one of these (not to get ahead of things, you might not need a stator.) Less expensive and better than OEM.

 

[danbobberino]

Sorry I had the rectifier/regulator out of the bike so I couldn't do the test....

And I do have a decent Fluke Multimeter.

What I did do was the following:

https://youtu.be/-EWdixr2vak.

I will hook it all back up and check the voltages like you mentioned in the 6 steps and get back...

 

[danbobberino]

Okay, just hooked it back up and tested

1. Battery tested 12.9 volts - I had it on a trickle charger this afternoon and haven't touched it since

2. Turned ignition key on and headlight on - 12V

3. Started bike and idled - no headlight 12.3V
- headlight 12.1V

4. 2500RPM headlight on - 12.1V

5. 5000RMP headlight on - 12.1V

6. turned key off (headlight turned off when key turned off) - 12.4V

These were all tested at the battery terminals (battery is brand new with 2 short rides on it)

 

[posplayr]

Okay, just hooked it back up and tested

1. Battery tested 12.9 volts - I had it on a trickle charger this afternoon and haven't touched it since

2. Turned ignition key on and headlight on - 12V

3. Started bike and idled - no headlight 12.3V
- headlight 12.1V

4. 2500RPM - 12.1V

5. 5000RMP - 12.1V

6. turned key off - 12.4V

These were all tested at the battery terminals (battery is brand new with 2 short rides on it)

OK you have zero charging output.

Do the Phase B stator pages make sure to to do the leg-leg and leg-to-ground tests measuring VAC at 5K RPM.

My guess is you are going to fail and need a stator.

http://www.thegsresources.com/statorpapers4.php

 

[Steve]

If you had a "new" battery on the charger all day, it should have read more than 12.9 volts when you removed the charger.

That same battery should have shown quite a bit more than 12 (assume 12.0?) volts with the key ON.

Idling at 12.3 and 12.1 is a bit low, but what is your idle speed? Should be about 1100, and voltage should probably be over 13.

The fact that it basically does not go over that says you need to check the actual output of the stator.

Remove the three stator leads from the input of your rectifier. Mentally (or actually) label them A, B and C. You might need a helper for this, but start the engine, run it at 5000 RPM. Set your meter to AC volts and measure from A to B, A to C and B to C. You should get something in the 75-90 volt range and all three readings should be close to each other. Now put one meter lead on a ground point (engine case works well), run the engine at 5000 again and check voltage from each stator wire to ground. Those readings should be ZERO.

If those tests are all good, you need to check connections down the line a bit. If they are not good, you have a bad stator. Good luck finding one, as you have a 12-pole stator. If you are shopping on eBay or Amazon, contact the seller to verify that it has 12 poles, not 18. They are NOT compatible.

.

 

[danbobberino]

I just unhooked the alternator leads and tested ac voltage with the bike running. I tried my best to rev it up but my tach doesn't work and I didn't want to rev the **** out of it because its 10:45PM and I'm working right outside my 2 year olds window who is sleeping.

I got up to 45Volts phase to phase on all 3 phases while I was revving it and about 15-16V phase to ground while revving it. I don't know how many RPM I was at but I definitely wasn't very hi.

Tomorrow I will start up the bike with the alternator disconnected again and rev the bike up more and see if I'm getting the 75-90V phase to phase as Steve mentioned in the previous reply.

Please see my youtube video below where I tested the R/R.

https://youtu.be/-EWdixr2vak

I think my R/R is shot by these tests.....

What do you think?

 

[posplayr]

Stator looks like toast; you meddle that and sh775

 

[danbobberino]

Stator looks like toast; you meddle that and sh775

Sorry, both the stator and R/R should be replaced? Can you help direct me more to witch parts I'll need? I don't know what an SH775 is.

Also, my bike seems to be a little different - I have a white green, white blue, and yellow wire coming off of my stator (not 3 yellows). I am quite sure one of the phases is switched on to charge only when the headlight is on. Basically, just wanted to confirm my bike will accept the parts you are recommending.

 

[posplayr]

Sorry, both the stator and R/R should be replaced? Can you help direct me more to witch parts I'll need? I don't know what an SH775 is.

Also, my bike seems to be a little different - I have a white green, white blue, and yellow wire coming off of my stator (not 3 yellows). I am quite sure one of the phases is switched on to charge only when the headlight is on. Basically, just wanted to confirm my bike will accept the parts you are recommending.

SeeGSstatorlinkoinmysignatureforSH-775info.

See Steve's comments about needing a 12 pole rewind for your stator.

The reason you need both is that your current R/R is burning the sator, so unless you want to participate in groundhog day, do both.

Wire stator direct to the R/R and ignore all colors.

 

[danbobberino]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrospor...ash=item2f01e44b10:g:SOsAAOSwVm5Y9Qj~&vxp=mtr

Just ordered one of these (not to get ahead of things, you might not need a stator.) Less expensive and better than OEM.

I just clicked on the link and it looks like that is an 18 pole stator. Can someone recommend a 12 pole as mentioned that I could buy that will fit my bike?

What about this one: http://www.electrosport.com/street-.../stator-12-pole-suzuki-gs550750850-76-on.html

I am going to go to the local polaris dealership tomorrow and see if i can buy this:

Lots would work ,but your best choice is none of them! get a SH-775 from a Polaris ATV dealer their part #4012941 . search on the forum for reasons why.

If not, I'll order one off eBay.

Thanks!

 

[1948man]

I was told used SH-775's on ebay are reliable since they are hard to hurt and they are way cheaper than new ones. You need a wiring hookup that is available new from Triumph dealers. I just ordered one of the sh-775's for $40 and the wiring hookup for $14 shipped.

 

[1948man]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?245784-Alternative-to-the-SH775-RR

Starting about post 17 in the linked thread is the advice I got. I got stator, R/R and hookup wiring for less than $160

 

[posplayr]

I was told used SH-775's on ebay are reliable since they are hard to hurt and they are way cheaper than new ones. You need a wiring hookup that is available new from Triumph dealers. I just ordered one of the sh-775's for $40 and the wiring hookup for $14 shipped.

There maybe one or two stories lurking out there of failed SH-775's but I don't recall anybody ever reporting any. The used ones are probably as good if not better as they have been more extensively burn in tested.

In comparison a stock Shunt R/R has been trying to kill the stator for what ever amount of time it was installed and used.

 

[danbobberino]

Guys I am so confused.

I thought my bike was a 1979 Suzuki GS550E, and technically it is, but I think it was built as an L model. I'm so confused and I don't know which parts to buy.

Please check out this video I just quickly put together: https://youtu.be/xxjPS9ENqMk

Anyway, I just pulled an 18 pole stator out of the bike and I'm not sure if I for sure need the 12 like you guys were talking about or if I need the 18?

HELP!

 

[robertbarr]

Guys I am so confused.


Anyway, I just pulled an 18 pole stator out of the bike HELP!

It sure looks "L" to me.

The usual "L" sidecovers are sort of triangular. I'll have to look up an older 550L to see for sure. Perhaps that "E" sidecover was 'adapted' onto the bike.

As for the stator -- on a GS of that age, it's very probable that this isn't the first time the charging system has failed. One common way to solve the 12-pole problem is to install a rotor from a later bike made for 18-pole stators. That may explain why you pulled an 18-pole out of there.

No matter how it got there, that solves one problem for you.

 

[danbobberino]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrospor...ash=item2f01e44b10:g:SOsAAOSwVm5Y9Qj~&vxp=mtr

Just ordered one of these (not to get ahead of things, you might not need a stator.) Less expensive and better than OEM.

So I guess I'll just order a new 18 pole stator and hope for the best (I'm also going to go to the local polaris dealership/triumph dealership and pick up the sh775 and the T2500676 harness (or order off eBay for the sh775 and bike bandit for the T2500676 I guess).

Are 18 pole stators pretty much interchangeable? As in, could I just order the same one that is 1948man mentioned above and will it fit in place of the one I removed?

Oh, and when I removed the cover to get to the stator the gasket ripped in half and broke. I thought the best thing to do would be to go down to my suzuki dealership and order a new one? Any suggestions there? Partzilla says I need a 11483-47000-H17

 

[1948man]

I'm no expert and am more of a taker of information than a giver but here is what I think I have learned. OEM gaskets are by far the best in areas prone to leak but the stator gasket isn't in a real harsh environment so aftermarket gaskets like those sold a Z-1 Enterprises are okay. Not sure about the stator but suspect it will work, you might want to wait for a stronger opinion. The SH775's are much cheaper used and as stated above, they are considered to be a good gamble used to save a lot of money. When I was searching Ebay for one, I only found one listed but maybe my search was faulty.