GS1000. On my own this time

[RobertGS]

After it appears wasting money having someone else do a bunch of top end work last year, I've learned that the message on this site to do it yourself seems to be holding up.

I'm a newbie so will be looking for ideas and feedback. I've put at least 600 easy kms on the bike since the supposedly new rings, carbs supposedly rejetted, valve job supposedly done.

Still Smoke on startup out of left pipe which was happening before the work and hasn't seem to have changed. So I'm assuming valve guide seals?, but why the heck would that not have been part of the job....

Smoke just lately while running out of right pipe and Number 3 cylinder at exhaust port on reving. Doesn't seem good. Looking for ideas here on what to look for.
Leaks now at topmost gasket (head gasket?) on left side in particular

Somewhat gassy smell while running. Very slight fuel dripping from carbs, none while running but after sitting for a while after running and set on centre stand. Strangely this dripping was quite a bit worse a while ago. Then I started dissasembly to get the carbs out, wiggled them around a bit and stopped because of time. Rethought things figuring I should run it a bit more to get a better feel for what it was running like so put it back together and since then, a lot less dripping. Perhaps I giggled a stuck float loose?

I've installed a brand new oem petcock a little while back so that should be good.

That's the top end stuff. I'm also going to be installing progressive springs up front and checking the clutch basket.... big rattle at low rpm's. Plus some gas tank work (already cleaned out an old liner, now have a pinhole leak... so thinking a new liner or???. So I've been reading various threads and information.

So going to try this on my own this time. Bought a few extra tools today. I'll be posting pictures when I figure out how to do that. The work is going to be on the slow side because I'm new and also have two young kids. Appreciate any thoughts to get me started and also along the way.

 

[rustybronco]

Well the initial thought is they either damaged the valve stem seals or messed up the ring install. Either way you're most likely going to have to rip into it to find out what is the root cause.

Read first, ask questions, we'll be here...

 

[SVSooke]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=196338 and one question,which GS1000 have you got?Might want to put in in your signature.Go to your user CP and then click on the edit signature.

 

[RobertGS]

signature updated

signature updated

Thanks for the direction to the GSOwners forum. Hadn't seen that. Signature updated...I have a 1979 GS1000N with 68,000KM on the engine. Most of that mine.

So I've started taking the engine apart. Didn't take long to get stopped. I removed the camshaft cover and clamped the rear camshaft and removed the 8 bolts from both bearing caps. They don't seem to be budging. Don't want to smack them. Shouldn't they just lift off?

Also I'm assuming having a bunch of oil up there is normal yes?

 

[RobertGS]

So I got a couple of helpful thoughts in another thread (which I am now deleting to keep all in one place). Thanks tkent02 and nessism.

Seems I should reverse course a bit and learn how to test compression before pulling the head. I'll read around but assume I need to retighten bearing caps and reinstall the camshaft cover to do that, but that I don't need the carbs reinstalled to test compression?

And since I'm curious, if anyone can answer the question below about why the two bearing caps didn't budge that would be great.

I'd love to find out I don't need to pull the head... with the smoke issues described below do I have a hope?

 

[tkent02]

So I got a couple of helpful thoughts in another thread (which I am now deleting to keep all in one place). Thanks tkent02 and nessism.

Seems I should reverse course a bit and learn how to test compression before pulling the head. I'll read around but assume I need to retighten bearing caps and reinstall the camshaft cover to do that, but that I don't need the carbs reinstalled to test compression?

And since I'm curious, if anyone can answer the question below about why the two bearing caps didn't budge that would be great.

I'd love to find out I don't need to pull the head... with the smoke issues described below do I have a hope?

No carbs needed to check compression. Give the cam caps a light tap, they fit tight.

Some hope, fix the little things first and see how it goes. A puff of smoke on startup only wouldn't bother me much, just pretend it's a Beemer.

 

[rustybronco]

Normally I loosen each cam cap bolt a turn or two at a time across all cam bolts, then it's rinse wash and repeat until all the bolts are out.

Yes there will be oil in the top of the engine. More if the bike is on the centerstand.

 

[RobertGS]

So here's what I got from my first ever compression test.

#1 - 110 psi
#2 - 118
#3 - 113
#4 - 110

From my brief look around I'm thinking that's not good. Any thoughts?
The spark plugs in 1 and 2 looked pretty tan. 3 a little bit sooty but dry. #4 was oily.

A few more points, some noted below, some not.
- On startup the bike was slow to warm...would cut out if any throttle given...then after a good long while it became responsive to throttle
- as I said a good bit of smoke (whitish) on startup every time.
- lately smoke while running out of one pipe and around #3 exhaust port

I"m not sure if the carbs have been balanced. The work I had done by someone else (I know) says the following on the invoice
-clean out carbs and replace fuel inlet valves, rubbers and flow bowl gaskets
- rings, hone cyls, valve job, shim,
- a note on the back of the invoice says pistons are close to being under size but should be ok
So how bad is it?

 

[tkent02]

So here's what I got from my first ever compression test.

#1 - 110 psi
#2 - 118
#3 - 113
#4 - 110

From my brief look around I'm thinking that's not good. Any thoughts?
The spark plugs in 1 and 2 looked pretty tan. 3 a little bit sooty but dry. #4 was oily.

A few more points, some noted below, some not.
- On startup the bike was slow to warm...would cut out if any throttle given...then after a good long while it became responsive to throttle
- as I said a good bit of smoke (whitish) on startup every time.
- lately smoke while running out of one pipe and around #3 exhaust port



I"m not sure if the carbs have been balanced. The work I had done by someone else (I know) says the following on the invoice
-clean out carbs and replace fuel inlet valves, rubbers and flow bowl gaskets
- rings, hone cyls, valve job, shim,
- a note on the back of the invoice says pistons are close to being under size but should be ok
So how bad is it?

The compression is fine, at least good enough. Maybe it didn't get ridden hard enough after the rebuild when the rings were new? Ride it a lot with the valves adjusted properly and it should get better.

Slow to warm, yet smoking white, something is up with the carbs. Maybe it's lean on the pilot jets so you have to use too much choke? Not having the carburetors balanced or synchronized properly can do wierd things like this. Could be condensation in the pipes, could be a few things. I'd start with getting the carburetors perfect and see what happens.


* *Edit: I see you have a '79, so it has VM carburetors. *The #3 is the one with the vacuum line to the petcock on those engines, this could have everything to do with the smoke * * * * *in that cylinder, and some of the other things. *Put the model and year in your signature or in the posts to make it easier for us to keep track.


Pistons close to undersize is just trolling for more rebuild money, unless they told you at the time it needed to be bored and new pistons installed, and you didn't want to pay for it. Either they were in spec at the time or they weren't.

 

[rustybronco]

White smoke is not an issue. Oily plug on #4 is.

Piston being close to undersize... "to measure is to know."

 

[RobertGS]

Thanks, so I have a bunch of carb rebuild reading in my future. What I'm hearing you say is that carb issues could cause smoke on running out of the number 3 cylinder (which is where I think it's coming from) as well as the "slow to warm" issue.
There's also the slightly damp with gas bottom of the carbs after the bike is shut off.

So I should tear the carbs apart, clean and rebuild? Would that be best?

tkent02 I see your note about the vacuum line going to carb 3 as maybe being related. I assume you mean it's one more thing that may point to the carbs.

Also I'm assuming check the valve clearances. (anything else to check around the valves?)

rustybronco, What does the #4 oily plug mean I should do/check. Are there things to eliminate first before say removing the head (or more) or is this pointing to a full top end job?

Any other easy checks / issues that could be related that you can think of while I'm at it?

You may be right about needing some more riding on the new rings. I definitely took it easy on the bike since the rings were installed.

 

[rustybronco]

If it is oil on the plug, then whoever overhauled it did something wrong. Now 'you' get to take it apart (or take it back to whoever did the work) and make sure EVERYTHING is as it should be. Piece by piece, step by step...

 

[Big T]

Thanks, so I have a bunch of carb rebuild reading in my future. What I'm hearing you say is that carb issues could cause smoke on running out of the number 3 cylinder (which is where I think it's coming from) as well as the "slow to warm" issue.
There's also the slightly damp with gas bottom of the carbs after the bike is shut off.

So I should tear the carbs apart, clean and rebuild? Would that be best?

tkent02 I see your note about the vacuum line going to carb 3 as maybe being related. I assume you mean it's one more thing that may point to the carbs.

Also I'm assuming check the valve clearances. (anything else to check around the valves?)

rustybronco, What does the #4 oily plug mean I should do/check. Are there things to eliminate first before say removing the head (or more) or is this pointing to a full top end job?

Any other easy checks / issues that could be related that you can think of while I'm at it?

You may be right about needing some more riding on the new rings. I definitely took it easy on the bike since the rings were installed.

Robert

Get an O ring kit for the carbs and follow the VM cleaning guide posted In The Garage and on Basscliff's site

Issue with #3 - probably the petcock is leaking extra gas into the engine. Does your oil smell gassy?

Issue with #4 -could be a couple of things, rings improperly installed, poor homing, not broken in yet, valve guide seal

Take the bike out when you've cleaned the carbs and run it up in the gears and let off - on and off for a hundred miles or more-vary the speed, down shift and let out the clutch

Then report back

I have to ask, with all of these problems, why didn't you take it back to the mechanic?

 

[RobertGS]

Thanks BigT,

Sounds like a plan. About number 3 I notice you said the petcock is probably leaking gas into the engine. I'll check the smell of the oil. The level hasn't changed. But with a new oem petcock just installed, are you thinking the petcock still sounds like it's toast?

The mechanic thing was a giant pain from the start. I gave him the engine, because I was trying to do as much as I could on my own before I bailed... He said he'd do the work, then had some family issues and, unfortunately began changing his story about even doing the work... months and months passed by. I think he had it for half a year. Then when I got it back I took forever to put it back together... I did bring it back once for tune up but only noticed the smoke on startup... which he just claimed it was too early to say given the ring job. The other issues I've noticed since and to be honest I'm just done with it, don't trust him and want to do it on my own.

 

[Reconnoiter]

One way to test the fuel petcock is to disconnect it from carb and try to suck air out of it, if you get gas in your mouth then you know it's bad

 

[tkent02]

Suck on the vacuum line too, that's the one that would leak fuel into #3 if the diaphragm is leaking.
Gasoline thinning out the oil could cause a lot of smoke if that's what's happening.

 

[Reconnoiter]

One way to test the fuel petcock is to disconnect it from carb and try to suck air out of it, if you get gas in your mouth then you know it's bad

I have a 81 gs1000L and have had this similar problem before, another way to test is to disconnect line from #2 carb (sitting on bike left to right on mine)
Plug line with a golf tee or something like that, also put fuel line on #2 carb and plug that too, give it a try and see what happens

 

[Reconnoiter]

I have a 81 gs1000L and have had this similar problem before, another way to test is to disconnect line from #2 carb (sitting on bike left to right on mine)
Plug line with a golf tee or something like that, also put fuel line on #2 carb and plug that too, give it a try and see what happens

For this you would have to put your petcock on prime

Bob

 

[RobertGS]

Sounds easy enough to check the two lines into the petcock with a bit of suction. will do and report back.

 

[londonboards]

Is It Oil Burning or Is It Running Rich?

Is It Oil Burning or Is It Running Rich?

Do some research on here about the difference between white smoke and blue smoke. I forget which is which now. But I have had a lot of this on one of my GS1100s and it was all cured with a carb synch:

See: My GS1100 Road Runner - Carb Synch Blog

Before:

After:

You can see the smoke it was producing here:

http://youtu.be/biz07C2iVh4

Run the motor without the header and look up the exhaust manifolds. See how this one is spitting fire? It was way out of synch and creating all sorts of smoke and fire:

http://youtu.be/biz07C2iVh4

Then do one of these and Bob is surely your Uncle:

http://youtu.be/c-iHNyp1Lss

Might not need a carb synch of course but I would prefer to do one of those than to strip the head.

Greetings