GS450 headlight/electrical issue...

[schmitty78]

So, when I bought my 81 450T from a buddy, he said the PO had something in the headlight held in with rubber bands. Last Sunday I decided to take it apart to see what was going on, especially since I have had poor night lighting. I found the headlight unit itself, had the portion the bulb plugs into broken off/missing. The bulb was what was being held in with rubber bands. Classy! So, I figured out what parts to order, and ordered from boulevardsuzuki.com (have had great luck with them so far). Well, I went to put everything back together as it was, with new rubber bands, and noticed one of the filaments was broken. I checked the wattage and style bulb and purchased a Sylvania Silverstar Ultra 50/65 H4 bulb, and put it back in. I considered going back for a cheap one, since I had to put it in with the rubber bands, but said the hell with it. I rode for about an hour or so into the evening, and not far from home, I got a bright blue flash out of the bulb, and the LO burned out. I stopped at the gas station for a break, then decided to ride the last 1.5 mi home with the HI beam. Well, a couple hundred yards before turning on my road, same bright blue flash and the HI was gone. So, in the interest of getting home, I dropped to 2nd and turned on my right turn signal, which flashed fine then started acting up a little, then either went on solid or out completely (can't remember exactly). I switched the the left, which flashed for a bit, then went solid. Switched back to right, and it was out completely. I finally found in my service manual, that it calls for a 35/50 bulb. Now, I've been riding a good bit the past few weeks with the previous, basic Sylvania 50/65 bulb with no issues at all. Could the Silverstar bulb, with same wattage rating as the previous one, still cause a higher draw and the described events, or might it be coincidence and there is a deeper issue? I read through a good bit of the Stator Papers, and figured I might as well start there, but haven't had the time yet to start checking voltages and connections. Is this my best course of action, or have any of you ran into the same problem, and have a direct solution? I still plan on going through the charging system checks and checking/cleaning all my connections, but it would be nice to have this solved so I could at least ride to work instead of burning gas in the damn Ford V8, lol. Any comments or suggestions are certainly appreciated!

 

[robertbarr]

Start by measuring the voltage at the battery, at idle and at higher rpm's (3k or so for now). Purchase an inexpensive halogen to 'load' the system and check again.

A crummy connection can shorten the life of a halogen (intermittent on/off), but there's nothing that a burned-out headlamp could do to your bike that would kill / harm your signals, so I'm leaning toward excessive voltage output.

 

[schmitty78]

Are you saying start by checking the battery voltage with the bike off, then at idle, then at 3K rpm? So, since you mentioned it, what would the excessive voltage output come from? I did read about it in the stator papers, but don't remember. Also, is there a problem with running a 50/65W bulb in the headlight, when the manual calls for 35/50W? I will probably finally get to look into this on Saturday, so I'll report what I find out then. Thanks a lot, Robert!

 

[robertbarr]

No, we're interested in the voltage when the bike's running.

I really don't think the slight difference in headlight power consumption would have any effect on a healthy system, but remember that this thing's 32 years old.

I can't really picture what you mean with the problem with the headlamp connector; there's usually a spring wire latch that holds the H4 in there, with a 3-sided connector that pushes onto the back of the lamp (bulb). Where would you put rubber bands? Or is it the spring latch you're missing? If that H4 can be jostled around in there, it'll die young. And I'll toss in that you need to make sure you don't touch the bulb's glass in any way, or it'll die young.

 

[schmitty78]

No, we're interested in the voltage when the bike's running.

I really don't think the slight difference in headlight power consumption would have any effect on a healthy system, but remember that this thing's 32 years old.

I can't really picture what you mean with the problem with the headlamp connector; there's usually a spring wire latch that holds the H4 in there, with a 3-sided connector that pushes onto the back of the lamp (bulb). Where would you put rubber bands? Or is it the spring latch you're missing? If that H4 can be jostled around in there, it'll die young. And I'll toss in that you need to make sure you don't touch the bulb's glass in any way, or it'll die young.

Well, that's good to know, because the 35/50's seem to be difficult to find. I must be missing the spring wire latch. Also missing the L/R adjustment screw, spring, and square nut...but I've ordered everything I could find. Couldn't find the screw, but hoping to be able to pick that up at a hardware store, if I'm lucky.

Here's a pic of the headlight unit

And one of the rubber bands, though I don't have a bulb right now to put in it, but hopefully you get the idea

And yeah, I learned long ago to not touch those bulbs with your fingers! LOL

 

[schmitty78]

Hopefully you can view those pics...I linked them from facebook, which I'm pretty sure I've done in the past. They don't seem to be displaying here on my end though.

 

[Guest]

Can't see the pic's I'm afraid... but my stock E headlight's plastic mounting bit for the bulb was worn, used to flop about when it came unclipped, and blew bulbs constantly.

I now have an aftermarket light on there with a standard H4 bulb in it and it's miles better. From memory it's a standard 60/55W bulb and my charging system has no problems driving it, but I have a new stator and a Shindengen SH532 R/R on there rather than the stock dodgy Suzuki items.

As Robert said, sounds like you have an overcharging issue that is blowing your bulbs.

On these 450's you need to sort that out real quick as it can potentially kill your ignitor, and that's not a cheap/easy fix...

Typically if it's overvoltage it will be a dodgy regulator/rectifier, but follow through the stator papers to be sure.

 

[schmitty78]

Can't see the pic's I'm afraid... but my stock E headlight's plastic mounting bit for the bulb was worn, used to flop about when it came unclipped, and blew bulbs constantly.

I now have an aftermarket light on there with a standard H4 bulb in it and it's miles better. From memory it's a standard 60/55W bulb and my charging system has no problems driving it, but I have a new stator and a Shindengen SH532 R/R on there rather than the stock dodgy Suzuki items.

As Robert said, sounds like you have an overcharging issue that is blowing your bulbs.

On these 450's you need to sort that out real quick as it can potentially kill your ignitor, and that's not a cheap/easy fix...

Typically if it's overvoltage it will be a dodgy regulator/rectifier, but follow through the stator papers to be sure.

Thanks Pete...you continue to be great help, along with others on here! I'll start troubleshooting in the morning, and post back what I find out at some point. I'm also waiting on photos to transfer to my new photobucket account, so hopefully I can get those pics up, so you guys can actually see what I was talking about with the headlight.

 

[schmitty78]

Here's the back side of the head lamp unit

And here's how they had rubber bands attached to hold the bulb in. I didn't have a bulb at the time, but I'm sure you can see how it 'worked'...

 

[Guest]

Yes, interesting "fix" there...

That looks quite a bit different to the 7" on the E models... mine took a special bulb I had to buy from Suzuki, not a standard H4 type or anything. Was a PITA every time it blew...

Be interesting to see what your troubleshooting comes back with.

 

[schmitty78]

Yes, interesting "fix" there...

That looks quite a bit different to the 7" on the E models... mine took a special bulb I had to buy from Suzuki, not a standard H4 type or anything. Was a PITA every time it blew...

Be interesting to see what your troubleshooting comes back with.

Well, just went to start testing, and found no juice. Apparently something has drawn the battery down. Time to take it out, charge it, and see what is causing that. This day is getting off to a VERY bad start. :-/

By the way, it is a new battery, installed just a few weeks ago...

 

[schmitty78]

SO...would 3 out of 6 cells of the new battery being low be an indication of over charging? As you can see, I'm no electrical expert here.....yet. LOL

 

[posplayr]

SO...would 3 out of 6 cells of the new battery being low be an indication of over charging? As you can see, I'm no electrical expert here.....yet. LOL

Low on what fluid? If so yes over charging. What r/r are you using?

 

[schmitty78]

Low on what fluid? If so yes over charging. What r/r are you using?

Low on acid. Just a basic battery I bought that you had to put the acid in yourself. All cells were full just like 2 weeks ago. I haven't touched the r/r...it's the same as what was on it when I bought it. Not sure if it is the original or been replaced. The buddy I bought it from replaced some parts, but don't remember if the r/r was one of them. All I know is it looks old(er), so if replaced, it was probably a used one.

 

[schmitty78]

Low on what fluid? If so yes over charging. What r/r are you using?

 

[posplayr]

Never seen one of those R/E's. there are two things that I know of that can cause overcharging. One is a 6 wire r/r where the sense wire is attached where there is voltage drop. That forces the r/r to output more current to bring the low point up to 14.5v;
The other is where the regulator is only regulating on one leg and the charging system puts out enough on two legs to overcharge the battery.
Do a quick test if you get a decent battery to confirm overcharging, but the get a different r/r and do the grounding recommendations.
Search for sh775 Polaris series r/r those are the best going right now.

 

[robertbarr]

Yeah, that thing just has 'Long Walk Home' written all over it.

Look into either the recent FET (009 or 012) or the series regulators that we've been blabbing about relentlessly. There's a fairly current thread about the connector kits for them - from deluxe to homebrew, both probably just fine.

That's certainly a reasonably well-executed jury-rig for securing the H4 module, but it sure would be nice to have the spring clip that belongs there. I have one somewhere for the rectangular light from the Nighthawk in my sig -- it's a matter of finding it. I also have a known-good 009 available free + shipping + buyer digs out the existing RTV sealant.

Let me do some hunting.

 

[posplayr]

Sorry Robert , the fh009/012 fet r/r are still shunt and should not even be considered unless you just can not find an sh775 series unit

 

[schmitty78]

Yeah, that thing just has 'Long Walk Home' written all over it.

Look into either the recent FET (009 or 012) or the series regulators that we've been blabbing about relentlessly. There's a fairly current thread about the connector kits for them - from deluxe to homebrew, both probably just fine.

That's certainly a reasonably well-executed jury-rig for securing the H4 module, but it sure would be nice to have the spring clip that belongs there. I have one somewhere for the rectangular light from the Nighthawk in my sig -- it's a matter of finding it. I also have a known-good 009 available free + shipping + buyer digs out the existing RTV sealant.

Let me do some hunting.

I have the whole head lamp unit/assembly on order, but thanks! I took the battery back to the store I bought it from, and they just did a warranty swap. Now it will have to charge overnight before I can dig much further into this. So, I'm guessing it's safe to say, I might as well replace the r/r? I ran across a thread the other day mentioning the Electrosport ESR100, and how it is a high-quality product. Any objections to this particular one??

 

[koolaid_kid]

Absolutely replace the r/r before running the bike again.
As posplayr suggested, find a sh775 unit and use that.
Here is a thread discussing it.