GS450 headlight/electrical issue...

[schmitty78]

In your case you still have to run through the same "T" connection inside of the harness regarless if you run both R/R and Battery through a fuse or not. The R/R doesnt need fusing as it can only produce 15 amps. The battery much more. By fusing the R/R (with the battery) you need a larger fuse (20+ amps v.s. stock 15 amps) which is less protection against a battery short.

In the interest of doing things 'right', and having the most reliability out of my bike, I suppose I will just modify the wiring I have, install a new inline fuse back to the factory spot (with better connections & correct gauge wire), between the battery and the "T". Maybe I'll just see if I can get my money back on the wiring kit for the R/R (+) & (-). If not, would there be anything wrong with using the 14ga wire from Eastern's kit to go to the factory "T"? Other than that, my last 2 challenges are:

1) making a decent looking mounting plate, so I can re-locate the R/R underneath the right side cover, just above where the battery slides out...seems to be about the only spot it will fit on the 450's without other major modifications.

2) re-working the factory grounding.

Pos (Jim), I know you've received some grief over your ground loops/single point grounding strategy, but from what I've read, I see the theory behind it and agree with it. Do you still use the following strategy, from your thread from a few years back?

1.) Three wires tied together at a mounting bolt for the R/R at the side plate
a.) R/R (-) from the Honda regulator to ring lug on a mounting bolt
b.) Battery (-) to a ring lug on the same mounting bolt
c.) Frame ground strap from bolt to frame (not the rubber mounted side plate)

2.) R/R (+) goes to the fuse box as normal

3.) Only connection other than 1b above to battery (-) is the 8 guage wire ground strap to the engine.

 

[schmitty78]

Looks like Jim's got you pretty covered, he's pretty "switched on" on the electrics (pun fully intended!)

And yep, our little 450's just have an inline 15A main fuse, that's it, no fuse box as such.

From the factory, + from the battery goes direct to the starter solenoid. The 15A inline main fuse also goes from the + terminal to the R/R and ignition switch.

Pete,
On the 8 ga wire strap that goes from batt (-) to the engine, is yours just going to one of the bottom engine bolts, or is there actually a separate bolt on the engine just for grounding? Mine is going to a lower engine bolt, but it looked like there could've been a spot for just a grounding bolt, with no bolt. Was just curious...

Thanks!

 

[posplayr]

In the interest of doing things 'right', and having the most reliability out of my bike, I suppose I will just modify the wiring I have, install a new inline fuse back to the factory spot (with better connections & correct gauge wire), between the battery and the "T". Maybe I'll just see if I can get my money back on the wiring kit for the R/R (+) & (-). If not, would there be anything wrong with using the 14ga wire from Eastern's kit to go to the factory "T"? Other than that, my last 2 challenges are:

1) making a decent looking mounting plate, so I can re-locate the R/R underneath the right side cover, just above where the battery slides out...seems to be about the only spot it will fit on the 450's without other major modifications.

2) re-working the factory grounding.

Pos (Jim), I know you've received some grief over your ground loops/single point grounding strategy, but from what I've read, I see the theory behind it and agree with it. Do you still use the following strategy, from your thread from a few years back?

1.) Three wires tied together at a mounting bolt for the R/R at the side plate
a.) R/R (-) from the Honda regulator to ring lug on a mounting bolt
b.) Battery (-) to a ring lug on the same mounting bolt
c.) Frame ground strap from bolt to frame (not the rubber mounted side plate)

2.) R/R (+) goes to the fuse box as normal

3.) Only connection other than 1b above to battery (-) is the 8 guage wire ground strap to the engine.

Nothing has changed, lectrons still flowing the same way.

However, the only thing I have been considering changing is that three of those single point grounds wires could go into a single larger ring lug (say 12AWG) and crimp and solder the whole lot together and have just that many fewer surfaces to worry about corrosion.

I'm currently designing a Solid State Power Box and my plan has been to connect all those wires into one connector. Basically since the R/R and the SSPB will have the RED(+) soldered together there is no harm in also permanently connecting the ground side with the R/R(-) and the wires for the battery and the frame ground.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=210261&highlight=solid+state

You can still always unbolt the frame and battery grounds from those respective points. I probably would not include the harness B/W in the mix just so it can all be removed from the bike if necessary.

 

[schmitty78]

Nothing has changed, lectrons still flowing the same way.

However, the only thing I have been considering changing is that three of those single point grounds wires could go into a single larger ring lug (say 12AWG) and crimp and solder the whole lot together and have just that many fewer surfaces to worry about corrosion.

I'm currently designing a Solid State Power Box and my plan has been to connect all those wires into one connector. Basically since the R/R and the SSPB will have the RED(+) soldered together there is no harm in also permanently connecting the ground side with the R/R(-) and the wires for the battery and the frame ground.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=210261&highlight=solid+state

You can still always unbolt the frame and battery grounds from those respective points. I probably would not include the harness B/W in the mix just so it can all be removed from the bike if necessary.

Hmmm...I like the sounds of the SSPB! But due to limited space, probably wouldn't be too feasible on my 450...or too necessary. I would like to add a 12V power point one day though. So, would the 14awg wire be ok to use, to tie into the "T"? I have a Weather Pack connector kit and tools on the way, so I will be able to use whatever gauge neccessary, once it is here.

 

[schmitty78]

After reading through your whole introduction of the SSPB...it would be nice to have, if I could find a spot for it!

 

[posplayr]

Hmmm...I like the sounds of the SSPB! But due to limited space, probably wouldn't be too feasible on my 450...or too necessary. I would like to add a 12V power point one day though. So, would the 14awg wire be ok to use, to tie into the "T"? I have a Weather Pack connector kit and tools on the way, so I will be able to use whatever gauge neccessary, once it is here.

14 AWG is plenty and not required for most circuits. You could probably do with 16 AWG and pull 5 amps without problems.

I would go ahead and attach and solder the extra wire to the "T" and tuck it away till you want to add the 12V outlet.

you can see in this link that if you pull 5 amps with 16 AWG (R=13.17 milli-ohms/meter) you end up with a drop of 0.066V in 1 meter (deltaV=5*0.01317). If it is down and back then you are loosing 0.13V total. If you plan to run the battery down pulling 10 amps (double that) then you might consider running something larger than 16 AWG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Tom has a 2% rule of thumb which for 13V would be about a 0.26V drop where as the 5 Amp example I just gave you would still be 1/2 of that.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1886603&postcount=10

 

[schmitty78]

14 AWG is plenty and not required for most circuits. You could probably do with 16 AWG and pull 5 amps without problems.

I would go ahead and attach and solder the extra wire to the "T" and tuck it away till you want to add the 12V outlet.

you can see in this link that if you pull 5 amps with 16 AWG (R=13.17 milli-ohms/meter) you end up with a drop of 0.066V in 1 meter (deltaV=5*0.01317). If it is down and back then you are loosing 0.13V total. If you plan to run the battery down pulling 10 amps (double that) then you might consider running something larger than 16 AWG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Ok, I have 16 awg, so that'll be no problem. Good idea on soldering in the extra wire, I might as well do that, while I'm at it.

I just want to say thanks A LOT, Jim...you've been a huge help to me here. All this electrical stuff is starting to make sense now! lol :clap:

 

[posplayr]

Ok, I have 16 awg, so that'll be no problem. Good idea on soldering in the extra wire, I might as well do that, while I'm at it.

I just want to say thanks A LOT, Jim...you've been a huge help to me here. All this electrical stuff is starting to make sense now! lol :clap:

Glad we got to the bottom of things with relative ease, having you more confident in what you are doing is a real plus as well.

 

[schmitty78]

Glad we got to the bottom of things with relative ease, having you more confident in what you are doing is a real plus as well.

A BIG plus! I figured it wouldn't be TOO bad, once I got a little nudge in the right direction...

 

[schmitty78]

R/R mounting plate...

R/R mounting plate...

Cardboard rough mock-up for the new r/r mounting plate.

Newly fabricated aluminum plate. Cut it with a jigsaw, and I'm pretty happy with the results! Just wish I hadn't counter-sunk the r/r mounting holes on the WRONG side...but I think it'll still work. lol

Aaaaand...this is how the r/r will look on the plate. More to come, hopefully tomorrow. Gotta clean up the edges with a Dremel, try to get the scratches from the jigsaw smoothed out on the face, and get some mounting hardware. Oh, and this will go under the right sidecover, just above the battery.

 

[schmitty78]

Preliminary fitment test.

Finished product, minus the wiring.

 

[Guest]

Very neat! I like it, and I take it the side cover still goes nicely over the top.

 

[schmitty78]

Very neat! I like it, and I take it the side cover still goes nicely over the top.

Thanks Pete! Side cover should fit fine. I did a test fit, and some of the plastic hits the upper right corner of the plate, but it's on the backside of the cover, where the 2 pieces of the cover are riveted together, so I'll just notch some out with a Dremel tool. Hey, did you see my question, from post #42?? Was still wondering about that...

 

[Guest]

Sorry mate, missed that! Yeah it just goes to one of the crank case bolts, nothing special there, no separate special bolt for it or anything.

 

[schmitty78]

Thanks again, Pete!

I got everything wired up, but noticed it looks like I need to run a ground wire from the left side electrical plate, over to the right side, where I made my single-point ground, to pick up a ground for the starter relay/solenoid.

Here's some pics of the re-wired, and almost-final product. I temp'd the R/R (+) lead, and the 12V lead with 15A fuse from battery (+) to the harness, until I can redo them properly like I want to. I've also hooked up the old stator for now, until the gasket comes in for me to put the new one in.

Right side w/new single point ground (on lower-left mounting bolt), SH775 R/R, and newly-installed weather pack 4-pin connector for signal generator:

Left side:

And finally, newly-installed 6-pin weather pack connectors for igniter:

 

[schmitty78]

Bike fired right up! Let it warm up a little bit, and checked voltage at battery terminals (with no headlight bulb in at the moment), and have 14.38 VDC at idle. Hoping that's good? Time for a little research again...lol

 

[schmitty78]

Ok, so I checked the stator, had no continuity to my single point ground across any of the 3 legs. All measured approx. 0.8 ohms a-b, b-c, & a-c. All measured approx 60-62 VAC when running at 5K rpms, a-b, b-c, & a-c. The readings seemed to bounce a bit, but never really below 60 VAC.

On the battery terminals at idle, I measured 13 VDC

3K RPM was 14.1 VDC

5K RPM was 14.1 VDC

From what I've read, these seem to be ok measurements. I was hoping to ride some until the gasket comes in so I can replace the stator.

Happy Saturday to all!

 

[Guest]

Excellent, those voltages look good!

So there's only 5 connections on the SH775, not 6? I thought they had the sixth wire like my SH532 for a sense wire to monitor its output voltage? I could be wrong so don't quote me, I haven't seen the 775's in detail yet...

Nice job though, electrics should be a lot more reliable now!

 

[schmitty78]

Excellent, those voltages look good!

So there's only 5 connections on the SH775, not 6? I thought they had the sixth wire like my SH532 for a sense wire to monitor its output voltage? I could be wrong so don't quote me, I haven't seen the 775's in detail yet...

Nice job though, electrics should be a lot more reliable now!

Yep, just 5...no sense wire. Thanks! Yeah, it's much nicer to have a known starting point now, and a little more knowledge of the charging system. I can't wait to get the gasket in so I can change to the new stator!

 

[schmitty78]

Also, an update...since everything seems to be charging fine now, I decided to go to Auto Zone and get a turn signal relay to replace the original. After it was running, I checked the signals, and the left was still coming on solid, and no right signal. I got the cheapest one they had and tried the signals, left works great, and seems brighter than before, but still no left. While cruising around tonight, I noticed when trying the right, the light on the gauge cluster will flash (slower than the left), but still no right signal lights. In the morning, I suppose I will double check the bulbs and connections, and clean the connections. All other lighting seems to work fine, so I hope this is a simple fix...