H4 LED conversions

[first timer]

I can see your point if someone wants to run a windjammer fairing setup. People do run the bulb in KTM 990 adventures which have a very small headlight space with limited air. I will probably buy one eventually for the 990 and stick it in a GS to test out, I just have a standard headlight assembly no giant sailboat setup to cause air flow concerns, but that is a long time down the road. I just wanted to throw another option in the mix since I have used them on another bike with great success. All the bulbs you had linked are all small things compared to the three 10w cree emitters the cyclops uses.

Here is another option, but haven't used it.

http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/3800-Lumen-H4-LED-Headlight-bulb-_p_83.html

 

[Steve]

All the bulbs you had linked are all small things compared to the three 10w cree emitters the cyclops uses.

Evidently you did not look at the links. Not sure what you are calling "small things", but the two Truck-Lite units are complete replacement units that are all-in-one. They are EVERYTHING that you need, including lens, reflector and light-generating device, all in ONE sealed unit.

The Truck-Lite Phase 6 light has several emitters facing forward (not sure if they are CREE). Most of them come on for low beam, they ALL come on for high beam. The Phase 7 light has a completely different design that uses only two emitters, one for low beam, the other for high beam. There is nothing "small" about either one of them.

Also not sure about your concern with the Windjammer setup. A headlight bucket is a headlight bucket, they are ALL small and have virtually no airflow to cool a hot bulb. To a certain extent, a halogen incansescent bulb (typical H4) thrives on a bit of heat, but the high-power LEDs need to get rid of as much heat as possible. Just can't do that with a fan in a closed bucket.

.

 

[posplayr]

Evidently you did not look at the links. Not sure what you are calling "small things", but the two Truck-Lite units are complete replacement units that are all-in-one. They are EVERYTHING that you need, including lens, reflector and light-generating device, all in ONE sealed unit.

The Truck-Lite Phase 6 light has several emitters facing forward (not sure if they are CREE). Most of them come on for low beam, they ALL come on for high beam. The Phase 7 light has a completely different design that uses only two emitters, one for low beam, the other for high beam. There is nothing "small" about either one of them.

Also not sure about your concern with the Windjammer setup. A headlight bucket is a headlight bucket, they are ALL small and have virtually no airflow to cool a hot bulb. To a certain extent, a halogen incansescent bulb (typical H4) thrives on a bit of heat, but the high-power LEDs need to get rid of as much heat as possible. Just can't do that with a fan in a closed bucket.

.

This video shows the Cyclops running at about 88 degF at the bulb and 95 degF at the fan. Compared to the HID which is close to 320 degrees. Seem like the fan is may not even be necessary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GC8Df0sC4rI

 

[Dogma]

Evidently you did not look at the links. Not sure what you are calling "small things", but the two Truck-Lite units are complete replacement units that are all-in-one. They are EVERYTHING that you need, including lens, reflector and light-generating device, all in ONE sealed unit.

The Truck-Lite Phase 6 light has several emitters facing forward (not sure if they are CREE). Most of them come on for low beam, they ALL come on for high beam. The Phase 7 light has a completely different design that uses only two emitters, one for low beam, the other for high beam. There is nothing "small" about either one of them.

Also not sure about your concern with the Windjammer setup. A headlight bucket is a headlight bucket, they are ALL small and have virtually no airflow to cool a hot bulb. To a certain extent, a halogen incansescent bulb (typical H4) thrives on a bit of heat, but the high-power LEDs need to get rid of as much heat as possible. Just can't do that with a fan in a closed bucket.

.

If you look closely into the phase 7 reflector, you can see that the high and low beam each have 4 LEDs near the focal point of the reflector, in the space of about 5 mm. Almost a single source. They're placed behind a shade, that's why you have to look in the reflector. I'm told the specs only required 2 LEDs for the high beam, but it was more cost-effective to use the same 4-element package again. So, more photons!

 

[Steve]

This video shows the Cyclops running at about 88 degF at the bulb and 95 degF at the fan. Compared to the HID which is close to 320 degrees. Seem like the fan is may not even be necessary.

The last line of the video:
"And that's after running about 5 minutes, ... in stagnant air."

Even "stagnant" air has a fair amount of cooling ability, I would like to see the same test with the bulb (and the fan) closed up in a headlight bucket.

And, ... it's not about the absolute temperature, what really matters is what the light can tolerate. :-k

.

 

[posplayr]

The last line of the video:
"And that's after running about 5 minutes, ... in stagnant air."

Even "stagnant" air has a fair amount of cooling ability, I would like to see the same test with the bulb (and the fan) closed up in a headlight bucket.

And, ... it's not about the absolute temperature, what really matters is what the light can tolerate. :-k

.

Air is actually a good insulator, that is why down jackets work so well. If you close it up it will probably run cooler as now you have the lens to conduct heat away. Even if the air is trapped inside of the bulb preventing convection, heat still conduct out through the housing. So you are comparing the additional cooling effect of the rising heat in stagnant air v.s. a closed volume conducting heat out. It is probably a toss up and at 95'ish degrees I don't think it will ever get so hot you can not touch it.

As per the 5 minutes, there is not enough thermal mass there for it to take much longer than that to get to thermal equilibrium.......... I'm guessing they already tested it and now that 5 min is steady state.

 

[Steve]

Probably all true, but my money is spent, and I like what I have. :encouragement:

.

 

[posplayr]

Probably all true, but my money is spent, and I like what I have. :encouragement:

.

Well thank you for posting all those pictures, it has really helped. I must confess after seeing them I considered just using the 55w HIS I bought , then I saw the video of the 320 degree HIDS then thought about it some more. A nice bright H-4 led (running cooler) would be nice even if it has a fan on the back.

There is an interesting video where they dunk the LED into a glass of water. At first I thought it was sizzling from the heat and wondered about the thermal shock. When you mentioned fan I went back and realized what it was. I don't really like electric cooling fans, but this seems well made.

Based on Grande Rouge's review, I'm NOT sold on the ADVMonster for the Trainlight. Firstimers recommendation seems like it might be better.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...n-the-ADVmonster-H4-LED&p=2170008#post2170008

 

[Steve]

In the next couple of weeks, I am going to be doing some work on #2 son's 1000G so that #1 son can ride it this summer. By only seeing the light projected by the ADV Monster bulb and comparing that to what he has in his 650L (Truck-Lite Phase 6), he wants me to move the Truck-Lite to the 1000 for the summer. (He hasn't seen the pictures posted above, yet.) When I do that, I will get some additional pictures that will feature the stock reflector that was shown in the pictures above. I will get some pictures with the ADV bulb in that reflector, so we know that the only variable is the 'bulb'. I have already seen the differences in some different reflector assemblies, I might toss them into the mix for the next go-around.

.

 

[one_civic]

Sorry if this is off topic but I still have the sealed 7" gs750 headlight, the wattage is 50/35w

Can I replace the sealed lens for a 7" lens that takes an H4 bulb?

Will I have to upgrade the charging system for the new H4 60/55w bulb?

 

[Slycox]

Just be sure you are ready for the sticker shock. :-\\\



Yes, the visibility part helps, but they are my turn signals, too. :-k

They operate much like some of the newer cars,

It continues the "yellow. OFF, yellow, OFF" pattern until the control unit stops it, then the white light comes back on.


.

As far as the sticker shock I'm not to worried about it, when it comes to seeing and being seen at night I'm willing to spend the money to make sure I'm safe.

Thanks for the info on the turn signals too. I will probably steal that idea at some point down the road.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the info on the turn signals too. I will probably steal that idea at some point down the road.

Good luck with the turn signal idea. :-k

You need clear lenses to pull that one off. My fairing came with yellow lenses. I took one of them to Iron Pony (a major accessory store in Columbus, oHIo), found similar lenses on the shelf. Took that package to the counter, asked the guy to look up the application to see if they were available in clear. He mentioned they were for a Honda, but did not mention which one, then said "yes, they are available in clear, how many do you need?" I said that I needed two, but would be nice to have a spare. According to his inventory, there were three in the country, but in two different locations. Took a few weeks to get them all together and get them to me, but time was not critical.

If you find some clear lenses, THESE are the bulbs.

.

 

[posplayr]

This thread got me out to test the 55W H/L HID I got from DMM Tuning. They pull about 4.5 amps steady state and at turn on. However there is a large 25 amp spike that is the precursor to turn on (5 msec ahead).
I mounted the bulb into a spare 8" reflector I have and stood it up to see what the pattern did. This has only one bulb but uses a mechanically actuated blind to change the vertical coverage (i.e. a horizontal cut-off light pattern).

No side by side comparisons, I have a bigger shop than you Steve but need every inch of it so, no nice white walls to shine a pattern at.

 

[posplayr]

I can see your point if someone wants to run a windjammer fairing setup. People do run the bulb in KTM 990 adventures which have a very small headlight space with limited air. I will probably buy one eventually for the 990 and stick it in a GS to test out, I just have a standard headlight assembly no giant sailboat setup to cause air flow concerns, but that is a long time down the road. I just wanted to throw another option in the mix since I have used them on another bike with great success. All the bulbs you had linked are all small things compared to the three 10w cree emitters the cyclops uses.

Here is another option, but haven't used it.

http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/3800-Lumen-H4-LED-Headlight-bulb-_p_83.html

This is a link with a headlight comparison pictures for a KTM. It basically compares a stock halogen, a 55W HID and the Cyclops 3800 (street legal) ;
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/11...-cyclops-3800-lumen-h4-led-bulb-test-results/

Not shown is the 3600 Cyclops which is for off road and has a wider pattern. Granted one might not expect that these results are really applicable to the GS as the reflector housing is so different, but in term of raw lighting power the Cyclops 3800 appears to be pretty impressive and possibly even brighter than that 55W HID.

Based on a rough measurement the Cyclops 3800 appears to be smaller than the AVDMonster. The Cyclops also uses an external "ballast" which probably is why it is capable of running a higher output with smaller heatsink.

Cyclops 3800 Specs:
Lumen Rating 4400 (RAW)
Color temperature 5500K
Power draw 20 watts on Low 40 watts on high
Life span 30,000 hrs
12 Month Warranty

http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/products/xlamp/discrete-directional/xlamp-xml2

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=948701

A comment from one of the owners of Cyclopes. The 3600 is an older design and also does not have the external ballast. That is probably why they state it is not as reliable.

The 3600 offers a longer throw and round beam pattern, not quite as dependable as the 3800 but still a great light.

I'm leaning heavily toward the 3800.

 

[Grimly]

This is a link with a headlight comparison pictures for a KTM. It basically compares a stock halogen, a 55W HID and the Cyclops 3800 (street legal) ;
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/11...-cyclops-3800-lumen-h4-led-bulb-test-results/

I don't think the stock bulb was even a halogen - a real throwback to the 60s that is. Not surprising he wanted to upgrade that dreadful thing.

 

[Steve]

Good luck with the turn signal idea. :-k

...

If you find some clear lenses, THESE are the bulbs.

Quick update here. Don't bother with these lights for your turn signals. :-k

The set I installed failed within a couple of weeks. I got a replacement set just before going to the Brown County rally. That set has pretty much failed, too. The LEDs on the end (facing forward on the bike) are still working on both lights, but the panels facing sidways that fill in the rest of the light are breaking away, REALLY cutting down on how well they fill the space. They have a newer 'bulb' with CREE LEDs, I might try that to see if they are any more robust.

.

 

[posplayr]

Quick update here. Don't bother with these lights for your turn signals. :-k

The set I installed failed within a couple of weeks. I got a replacement set just before going to the Brown County rally. That set has pretty much failed, too. The LEDs on the end (facing forward on the bike) are still working on both lights, but the panels facing sidways that fill in the rest of the light are breaking away, REALLY cutting down on how well they fill the space. They have a newer 'bulb' with CREE LEDs, I might try that to see if they are any more robust.

.

Which? Linky dead

 

[Steve]

Which? Linky dead

OK, let's try THIS ONE.

Scroll down to the third row, left side, the 120-LED bulb. Based on my experience, they are too fragile to be used horizonally in a motorcycle.

I am considering replacing them with the first item, the 80-watt CREE units. If THEY don't last very long, I might have to try to engineer something myself.

.