How to part the cylinder head from the cylinders - stuck gasket - 1980 gs550e

[DimitriT]

Taking the carbon off the piston tops is usually done with the pistons out of the motor and a bench wire wheel.

But here's a little secret.. the carbon layer is actually not bad for the motor. It looks ugly but does no harm.

I've learned to leave it alone.

 

[tkent02]

Running the engine with a little water injection ( hose and two liter coke bottle) is the easiest way to clean them up, but like he says the carbon doesn't hurt anything.

 

[ukjules]

I have read and looked at the Hylomar website and I am going to use this as
I cant get Permatex Copper gasket spray in the uk.
Think i would have used he spray if you could get it here in uk.

I cant see a issue with dressing a gasket to increase performance with something that has history
here in the uk of doing that.
(I know Suzuki gaskets are meant to be used dry)

The issue is I have bought a non oem gasket set !! possible mad but
costs force me to take this risk.
I think surely with the above method i can have a better chance of success ?

-- points taken on pistons !

 

[Grimly]

If you're using Hylomar on a headgasket, I recommend the spray type - far easier to apply a light coating with that.
I've used it on several headgaskets, but a light spray is all you need, don't overdo it and let it tack up properly. It comes in especially useful if you have need to re-use a gasket and can't get one in a hurry and the bike has to be back on the road pronto. I haven't had one fail on me, doing that.

 

[ukjules]

Point taken on the spray - will do that.
A shame as I have the tube already but I know the spray is the way to go.
How can you get an even coating on such small gaskets manually with a tube !

The new head and cylinder arrived today. A big clean up and I think the cylinder is ok
(still trying to soften and get the old gasket off !) I have about an inch sq to get off in various bits.

but the head is a bit of a mess.
I can see helicoiling exhasut threads (I can do that), skimming the head (for perfection) and I am sure I can see minute cracks in the head.
oh and a valve is broken (not an issue as I have my old good valves) _I will post a picture of this head close up for you to considerations .......

I so wish though there was a liquid in my kitchen that could soften gaskets ?
There must be something that I dont have to go out and buy.

 

[ukjules]

How to remove gaskets:

Just to help others I did the following: - it worked finally.

Softened the gasket a bit with some wd40. Scraped the most off with a plastic scraper - carefully.
(The big bits came off scraping underneath gasket)
Razor blade @ 70-90 deg to surface and scrape the flat surface - carefully.
- using paint thinner to soften and clean up.
the final bits - a dremel with a brass brush attachment.

Head and Cylinder done after 5 hours of work .... plus

 

[DimitriT]

Looks good.

A couple of things:

Leaks around the base gasket happen near the corners. The corner stud channels are used to carry oil up to the head. That's why they have o-rings around them. But I usually like to apply some black silicone sealer (very thing coat, just a light wipe) on both sides of the gasket in these areas. Belt and suspenders.

Leaks from the head gasket occur around the central channel which has the timing chain. They have an o-ring there too. Sometimes this o-ring moves out of place when you lower the head down. I'll apply some black sealer on the o-ring so that it stays in place.

Take care of these two areas and you will have no oil leaks.

 

[ukjules]

point taken. i will make it so.

I hope to have this running by Friday - a tight schedule but possible even if i use
the head with cracks in it i bought with the good cylinder. a temporary head until i get another.

I have another head arriving - but i am sure this is the wrong type but was so cheap
i have taken a chance. if it is wrong i will strip down, do valves, seals, etc and sell
on reconditioned .. ish.

Another chap on here has offered one too - will check messages ......

Question:


is it possible or even of any use to take out the valve guides from my knackered sledge hammered head ?
if so how do you do it ?
what sort of cost to renew them or get and engineering comp to renew ?

 

[ukjules]

Question

I would be interested in thoughts on this compression test reading i took
a month before i took a sledgehammer to my engine.

Bike seemed to be losing oil gradually, no massive oil leak underneath at all but def around cyl 1,2 head and poss base.
this was gradually getting worse. white , poss bluey smoke when cold only at startup.
plugs 1,2,3 black and had to lean them up to the point of not allowing
the engine to tick over and not run good to sort to any extent.
valve clearances perfect, timing perfect, carb balance perfect.
air seals around inlet might have needed replacing.

the bike had always been like this for past 3 years.
i then decided to replace the base and head gasket ----- resulting in sledge fracus.

compression test (reading for wet cyl 1 - might be incorrect but i am sure that is what it read)

Cyl 1 Cyl 2 Cyl 3 Cyl 4

Dry 112 106 108 117

Wet 100 115 115 129

 

[ukjules]

No thoughts on the compression ?
It makes no difference as I am going to use a new cylinder and new head and will re check.
It is not bad though bar cylinder 1. possibly a miss reading.

All parts arrived now and rebuild will start today.
My two heads were both 0.008 out and the Cylinder was 0.001 out(within limits and no need for skimming
as gasket can take that out no probs)
The head and the 0.008 needs a minimal skim.
Both of the heads are going to cost me ?100 to sort out ! Skim and wrecked and i mean wrecked exhasut threads.
(way beyond helicoiling)

NOTE: Had the head with the crack inspected (photo in this thread) and madly that is ok !
He informed me that some idiot would have tried to remove it leaving the one bolt on at the front ....
I didnt tell him what happened to my original head.... some people eh !

One question:
On the rubber seals around the base of the cylinder and carb inlets do i put them on dry or
with a bit of rubber grease ?

Note I have bought the cheapest gasket set. Athena ?42 for top end
I will report how this works as it will be of interest.
I will put it on with the best possible faces on head and base and hope i can say it does not leak.
Note the machine shop said to put it on dry ! For the life of me i still want to
use spray gasket on both sides ...

 

[ukjules]

Cylinder on.

I did not use any ring compressors of any kind. - no need - to fiddly
I used simply the haynes manual approach and eased the pistons in - middle first then outside ones.
Oiled the cylinders first and tye went on easily !
I did this myself and all done in 20 minutes. Non techy people like me dont be scared of this ....

A small touch of blue hylomal on oil passage way routes. perfectly dressed surfaces, oil seals in in correct places using the "cheapest"
gasket set I could buy ! Will update on that.

This was a job I was dreading but was simple and easy in the end. Thanks for the info on this thread it pre empted
the problems.
What in the world would I (possibly we) do without this site ?

Head on tomorrow ....

 

[chuck hahn]

Dry..just use a thin blade and push the orings at the base of the sleeves into the grooves.

 

[DimitriT]

Compression is not ideal but within the limits. You can't expect perfection on a 30 year old bike. If you are doing the valve guides you may want to check the valves for sealing using the kerosene leak method. Sometime a valve lapping will fix that.

 

[ukjules]

I am not doing the valve guides although am always up for checking things if it can be done with things in my garage.
I considered buying new and gettign the engineering co - to sort but I am on a paupers budget.

I need the bike to cruise on !!! now. When it is going then Ill make a list of the things that can be done in winter - if ever needed.
I might even start on my second head and get that to perfection with the valve guides - as backup.
The thing is I need to stop the engine and start on the tank - (spray) and revamp the seat.

I will definately be lapping the valves. Be my first time doing so but have all the gear in readiness.

It should run better than ever - but there are of course the things i didnt touch as you say valve guides, rings
but there should be an effect and I am dying to know what it is ....

New seals on the carb side will make a difference the others were rock hard and 30 years old !
I found it very difficult to get an even tickover, evemn with perfect tune in other areas ... timing, valves clearances, carbbalance ..

 

[DimitriT]

If you are pulling the valve then you should look at replacing the valve oil seals.

 

[ukjules]

Head returned today. A fabulous job. mirror finish dead flat.
They also sorted all the threads and cleaned out the ports (inlet and exhaust)

Head rebuild started tonight and all valves in with new oil seals ! they came with my
cheap top end gasket set i am trialing.

I am missing one cylinder to head dowel so i am stopped for getting it running this weekend. damn.
Ill have to order one unless someone on here has one ?? ?
http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs550-1980-et_model13479/partslist/FIG-02.html#results

part number 10

Jules

 

[ukjules]

It could be today that the bike goes again.
I think a full 10 hour day will do it ..

Head on (all back together now with new seals and lapped valves), cams on, oil pan removal, valve clearances,
carbs set and synced, timing, air filter .........
Ill upload a video - of the first start up.

 

[Guest]

Hope you have a good day, Jules. Good Luck!

 

[ukjules]

Yesterday turned out to be a "Clean everything up day" and awaiting the one
locating dowel through the post for the cylinder head (i ruined one).

All screw threads cleaned out - a very very good engineer chap i used to know told me to always do this
as you can get more torque on the bolt with clean threads.
I religiously do that now to all threads and since then I have never stripped one .....
it gives me comfort to know the threads are in perfect condition on these old bikes.

everything is forensically clean now and ready to go. Just off to get the oil
and hope the posty bring that dowel.

Full analysis will be posted down to a full compression test wet and dry to see
what type of engine i am now dealing with.
Remember i have used the cheapest possible top end gasket set (athena) but have
done the best possible surface cleaning up (head skimmed to perfection and cylinder
is 0.002" out ok with a gasket. I am prepared to gamble for knowledge
if this works. The quality of the gasket set to be honest i am impressed with.

the weather here is superb - it is a disgrace i am not out there on the bike.

 

[ukjules]

Bike all together bar the exhausts and the usual impossible problem and poor design of the carb inlet box
and rubbers attaching to carbs.

The only big issue that is stopping me driving into the sunset in 30 minutes is the single valve
clearance that I cannot put my 0.003mm gauge into.
(I have nothing less - but have ordered a 0.002mm set of guages just in case it is slightly out)

the issue is I dont know and cant tell what the gap is. Even if there is one.
is there a fools way to find out if there is a gap of any kind ?
If it was 0.002 i would start it up but less i would not.

(Ill open another thread on the airbox rubber attaching to thre carbs)

J