Igniter problem and equivalents for 1984 GS1100GKE

[ericoppel]

I have a suspected faulty igniter (Suzuki part No 32900-49420) on my much loved '84 GS1100GKE.
The bike ran just fine until the other day when it started ok but would not rev and stopped when the throttle was used.
It would idle just fine otherwise.
Oddly I then had to wait a few minutes before being able to start it again and this happened a few times until now it won't start at all.

So far I have only checked for spark at the plugs and there appears to be none at all.
The starter motor is spinning nice and quick as per normal.

I am finding original igniters online very hard (read very expensive!) to come by but there do seem to be some used igniters from earlier and also later model bikes more readily available.

As far as I know the '82 model bikes did not have electronic ignition like mine but used points and a different (Suzuki part No 32900-49410) igniter.
The '84 GS1150ESE and newer models of GS1100 also with electronic ignition seem to have switched to Suzuki part No 32900-00A10 igniter.

Does anyone know if either one will work and if so do they require different connectors etc?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric.

 

[posplayr]

Hi welcome aboard. You have an 8V right?

The 8V advance curve is more advanced than for a 16V motor like the 1150E. So you probably need a 8V igniter with built in advance or go to a Dyna S and use a mechanical advance off an earlier 8V bike. I'm not all that clear on 8V bikes but that is how the Dyna works on 16V bikes.

 

[blowerbike]

Hi welcome aboard. You have an 8V right?

The 8V advance curve is more advanced than for a 16V motor like the 1150E. So you probably need a 8V igniter with built in advance or go to a Dyna S and use a mechanical advance off an earlier 8V bike. I'm not all that clear on 8V bikes but that is how the Dyna works on 16V bikes.

they work the same, you just add more total advance for the 8v.
the 1150 boxes don't have pigtails..they have plug ins.
dyna S may be the way to go after you acquire all the needed parts from a mechanical advance model.

 

[posplayr]

they work the same, you just add more total advance for the 8v.

how do you do that? With initial advance? Isn't the advance curve built into the igniter?

I used to do a Small Block Chevy distributor hop up ( early 60 cast iron distributors)which increased the initial advance from about 4 to about 11 but reduced mechanical advance to keep total unchanged. really woke up my 64 SS Chevelle with 327 .

Anyway is that what your talking about? Increase initial by the difference between 16V and 8V total advance?

 

[blowerbike]

sorry,
i'm talking about adding a dyna S.

 

[Nessism]

Starting in '82 the 850 and 1100 shaft drive bikes started using an ignitor with the advance curve built it. As far as I know the ignitors are interchangeable between these two models.

People here has reported success, as Pos and Blower have already stated, using a Dyna S and a mechanical advance unit off an early (pre '82) 850/1000. Fairly easy swap from what people report (but no personal experience).

 

[posplayr]

how do you do that? With initial advance? Isn't the advance curve built into the igniter?

I used to do a Small Block Chevy distributor hop up ( early 60 cast iron distributors)which increased the initial advance from about 4 to about 11 but reduced mechanical advance to keep total unchanged. really woke up my 64 SS Chevelle with 327 .

Anyway is that what your talking about? Increase initial by the difference between 16V and 8V total advance?

i started a new thread on this question

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=1259475#post1259475

 

[ericoppel]

very confused newbie

very confused newbie

Yes the bike is an 8 valve.
I didn't think there was any adjustment possible on these bikes?
Please forgive my lack of mechanical knowledge if I'm wrong, I've never tinkered with motorcycles (or cars) before and am struggling to understand all this.
I have just always jumped on board and ridden the bike apart from changing oil, filters, plugs etc and sometimes replaced OEM parts that have died or fallen off!
Isn't the timing advance determined by the ignitor unit itself?
The 32900-00A10 appears to be externally identical with the connector on the body from what I can see in pics I've found online. The earlier 32900-49410 has different plugs on a lead.
As to what goes on inside I have no idea apart from having opened mine and found among other things it has some sort of ic chip perhaps embedded in an epoxy filled can on the circuit board labelled "HI-115 and IDI2"

 

[ericoppel]

The Suzuki OEM manual I have for the GS1100GKE states the timing is 13 degrees B.T.D.C below 1500 RPM and 33 degrees B.T.D.C above 2350 RPM (+- 150RPM).
There is no mention I could find anywhere of being able to or needing to adjust it in any way.

 

[ericoppel]

I have just taken a pic of the inside of the unit but found I have no idea how to post it unfortunately!

 

[posplayr]

The Suzuki OEM manual I have for the GS1100GKE states the timing is 13 degrees B.T.D.C below 1500 RPM and 33 degrees B.T.D.C above 2350 RPM (+- 150RPM).
There is no mention I could find anywhere of being able to or needing to adjust it in any way.

U can probably do a goodle search and find this out. Advance is where in the crank cycle the ignition fires. Typically you fire Before Top Dead Center (BTDC) so that the flame front is fully evolved by the time the piston is After Top Dead Center (ATDC) and the compbustion forces can push down on the piston.

Ignition is usually also a function of RPM which again depends on the engine. Typically advance starts at what is called "initial" advance (13 in your case) which is the advance at low RPM (say less than 1500 RPM). As RPM increases so does the total advance until it peaks out at a maximum (33 degrees in your case).

The initial advance is set by rotating the pickup plate or ignition plate. The RPM based advance is set in the ignitor or with mechanical weights. In your case as well as the 1100E and the 1000 it is 20 degrees. So when you take the dynamic RPM based advance and add to the initial you get total of 33 degrees.



Seems like a GS1100E ignitor woudl be real close if you can find one for your bike. It is only 1 degree off and that is at less advance which is safe.

 

[blowerbike]

1100E igniter is mechanical advance.
his is off course...electronic advance.

 

[posplayr]

1100E igniter is mechanical advance.
his is off course...electronic advance.

So they dont interchange? So wonder how Bill thinks he got an 8V into his 16V?

 

[blowerbike]

the mechanical advance rotor will interchange from a pre-electronic advance 8 valve models and bolt right into to a 16 v.
bill told me the trigger plates was the same and the added/decreased advance came from the different location of the rotor on the advancer's between 8 & 16 valve models.

 

[posplayr]

the mechanical advance rotor will interchange from a pre-electronic advance 8 valve models and bolt right into to a 16 v.
bill told me the trigger plates was the same and the added/decreased advance came from the different location of the rotor on the advancer's between 8 & 16 valve models.

So sounds like a viable option if the OP can't find a GS1100GKE igniter (with electronic advance) and finding a GS1150 igniter is probably also gonna be tough and will need a mechanical advancer anyway...... so he could get away with a GS1100E mechanical advancer and a stock 1100E igniter which are more prevalent than anything than other than a DynaS.

It will all only be 1 degree retarded if he slaps it on and times according to the marks.

 

[blowerbike]

1150 is electronic also and has totally different plug ins.
could it be rewired?? maybe?
dyna S sounds like the best plan if a stock box can't be found for a fair price but he'd still have to purchase an 8v. advancer and i'm not sure if the cover is deep enough.
if not then add a deeper cover from a mechanical advance model 8v. as the 16v. covers do not bolt on.

 

[ericoppel]

Thanks for the explanation of how it works posplayr.

 

[Nessism]

Simplest solution in order to get this GK back on the road (assuming the problem is actually ignition related), you need to get either an 850 or 1100G '82+ ignitor, OR get a Dyna S and retrofit an older mechanical advance unit. I don't have time right now to research but I think the advance units from most 8V engines is the same (850/1000). You can check for yourself by looking at part numbers for the advance units using one of the various on-line parts fishe systems. Z1 Enterprise sells the Dyna S for about $120 and is a good supplier if you decide to go that way.

 

[posplayr]

Simplest solution in order to get this GK back on the road (assuming the problem is actually ignition related), you need either get an 850 or 1100G '82+ ignitor, OR get a Dyna S and retrofit an older mechanical advance unit. I don't have time right now to research but I think the advance units from most 8V engines is the same (850/1000). You can check for yourself by looking at part numbers for the advance units using one of the various on-line parts fishe systems. Z1 Enterprise sells the Dyna S for about $120 and is a good supplier if you decide to go that way.

Agree but expediency and cost are two different things. So more options could be a good thing ................ OR NOT

 

[ericoppel]

hmmmm, a few things to consider there. Thanks everyone.
I'm not all that keen on changing anything from original on my bike unless I have to, especially adding any extra mechanical bits which will give me another thing that has to be adjusted or will eventually wear out! haha!
I've learnt the hard way in life that anything that is mechanical and can move will wear out sooner than you would like (including myself!) and give you problems!
Will try today to get help from the other half to get the bike out of the small garden shed it's in (it's sitting on gravel and hard to move without help) now that the rain here has stopped.
Will check anything and everything I can think of for other faults before considering my options if it does turn out to be the ignitor as I suspect.
Gotta get this bike going soon as we seem to be having a short mild winter here and I'm keen to go explore the area around the country town I've moved to from the city 9 mths ago here in Australia.