Possible damaged R/R and/or stator

[noratx]

*sigh* I guess I will have to take all the readings one more time tomorrow.
I found out, when I had finally made all measures, that I had connected the probes in the multimeter wrong.
I got 3 sockets to put the probes in.

One for red, and 2 for black labeled 10A and COM.
I should have had the black probe at the COM socket, not the 10A.
Thats for failing to read the manual properly before using a new device.

Will I learn from this mistake?
Most likely not... it isn't the first time... not the last time either.

However, i guess I will ask my neighbour to help me tomorrow, as i found it very hard to take some of the readings properly on my own.I need to learn how to use my feets as hands.

 

[posplayr]

Nevermind, i see now when I loog at the diagram where I am misunderstanding how the wires are going.

Still though, I dont understand what it means that the stator has lost a leg?

Another question, is there a way to simply measure with the meter if the regulator needs to be replaced or not?

If you look at teh stator pages Phase B or the Revised Phase B I have described you will see that you are looking for 80 VAC (+/- 5VAC) at 5000 RPM. Any imbalances beyond that are likely insulation break down which means the stator is on teh way out. The proven best test is leg to ground tests when you shoudl see 0 VAC.

"Losing a leg" means one of the VAC voltage reading (leg to leg) is low.

all links referenced can be found here with other useful information.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...-Charging-System-Health&p=1138531#post1138531

 

[noratx]

Thank you posplayr. With how I had the meter configured, I dont trust any of the previous readings.

The leg to ground test you describe was fluctuating for me, but most often didnt show any resistance. Some times I had resistance up to somewhere around 120 ohms and going down to 0. But still, I do not trust the readings I had.

Will do them again tomorrow with the meter reconfigured.

According to the manual, I should not try measure any AC voltage over 10 amps. Am I at a risk trying to measure the stator with my meter? Or should it work anyway?

edit: Or, wait a minute.
You are describing measuring VAC from leg to ground, not resistance.

But still, are my meter to weak to be used? Or will 10 amps suffice?
Think I have read some of you guys in other threads speaking about 15 and even 25 amps... but that might be for other stuff?

 

[noratx]

Ok, I had a reason to go back to the bike, and while I was there I did a quick test on the stator.
I had my meter set to 200 VAC and while checking leg to ground, I reved the engine to 5000 rpm, and got a reading of 05.2 on one leg, and the other two at between 01.5 - 03.1.

I do find the readings a bit strange, but I guess that since the meter is set to 200 VAC, 05.2 VAC means 52 VAC and the other readings fluctuated between 15 and 31 VAC.
Or could the stator actually give mesuch low power as only 5.2 on one leg and between 1.5 and 3.1 on the other two and the bike still works as it's supposed to do?
(Well, I have to admit now that I think of it, the headlight is VERY weak, not to meantion the high beam!).

As said earlier, and as you probably understand, I am a COMPLETE 'noob' when it comes to electrics.
If you can find the patience for it, please help me understand and learn how to do this.

I have sucessfully renovated my Z500, but never needed to touch the electrics.
Now that I need to fiddle with the electrics on the GS 850, I am at a complete loss!

 

[posplayr]

My guess is that 05.2 means 5.2 VAC unless it is x10 or some other indication of a power of 10. Again refer to your manual.

You should confirm your meter's operating using a house current outlet. There is usually a scale above 200 VAC. I assume you are running 230 VAC in Sweden. At a high scale than 200, confirm you can measure about 230 VAC and then redo your stator measurements.

Assuming the meter is set correctly you should not see much of anything; even 5 VAC. For example that probably corresponds to about 10% of the power if on all legs. The fact that they are different also indicates something is probably damaged due to heat. If there was 20 VAC then you stator is toast.


If you read this you will see that: Any positive result that a stator is good means little to nothing(if not a loaded tests), but any bad result can disqualify the stator.

Redo the leg to Leg to see if a problem shows up there.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ECOND-LAW-of-Stator-testing&highlight=Phase+B

 

[noratx]

My guess is that 05.2 means 5.2 VAC unless it is x10 or some other indication of a power of 10. Again refer to your manual.

You should confirm your meter's operating using a house current outlet. There is usually a scale above 200 VAC. I assume you are running 230 VAC in Sweden. At a high scale than 200, confirm you can measure about 230 VAC and then redo your stator measurements.

I did actually refer to the manual, but it doesn't say anything.
The reasons I thought the 05.2 was 52 VAC, was simply because I expected 3 digits + at least one decimal.

The manual says

Measurement of alternating current (VAC)
Range, Resolution, Accuracy
200 V, 100 mV, ? 1.2% ? 10 digits
600 V, 1 V, ? 1.2% ? 10 digits

To be honest I was a bit affraid of plugging the meter into the wall socket, but thought that would give me a reference.
I will bring the meter from the topbox tomorrow and plug it to the wall socket and see. If it shows 230 then the readings from the stator was, in fact, 5.2 volts. If it shows 23.0, well, then it was 52 volts on the stator.
Never the less, since the passing results should have been 0, I am quite sure the stator is faulty and needs to be replaced.
But I will keep my order-hitting finger tucked in until I do some more testing tomorrow.
I just hope that it's either ONLY the stator that needs to be replaced, or that I am able to find out if also the R/R needs to be replaced (and any other parts for that matter too). I really hate to order one item, only to find out shortly after it arrives, that I need other parts as well.

Thanks for responding and helping me out. I really apreciate it!

 

[posplayr]

Measurement of alternating current (VAC)
Range, Resolution, Accuracy
200 V, 100 mV, ? 1.2% ? 10 digits
600 V, 1 V, ? 1.2% ? 10 digits

10 Digits means that it is going to read out the full value with as many as 10 digits.

Those reading by themselves are not good but would not explain a totally flat voltage reading when trying to charge. You probably are going to get much less than 80 VAC on teh leg to leg measurements.

The likely hood will be strong the stator is burned and so if you pull it and it is, then order both a new stator and a Series R/R.

After you receive hem,, install and following the wiring instructions in GS Charging Health and you should be good but do another quick test to confirm. If that checks to Revised Phase A test.

Order so DeOxit as well or the equivalent in Europe.

 

[Guest]

I just hope that it's either ONLY the stator that needs to be replaced, or that I am able to find out if also the R/R needs to be replaced (and any other parts for that matter too).

Honestly, if I were you and the stator needs replacing then I would also replace the R/R without a second thought. The original R/R from Suzuki was a shunt type. It ran the stator at full output all the time and just dumped whatever current it didn't need to ground. This killed stators because they were working at 100% capacity all the time when it just wasn't required and they ran hot. If you change to the SH-775 series type regulator your new stator will thank you. The series R/R's only pull whatever current they need from the stator, allowing it to work less hard and run cooler, which greatly increases their life spans.

You can find many threads on the series type R/R's if you search on 'sh775' and 'polaris'.


Mark

 

[noratx]

I am just poking around for both stator and R/R and found the caltric stator. Caltric also sells two different types of r/rs.

Unfortunately I have to be careful with the money, as my economy isnt the best (especially after last week, when we had burglars stealing both helmets, intercoms and tools the day before we were supposed to go for a long trip).

I need to ask you, is it essential to get the sh775 r/r, or would the caltric ones work just as well?
They got 2 models, one at 23 bucks, and one at 45, while the sh775 seems to begin at 90 bucks.

I guess, as usual, you get what you pay for, so I dont think I would jump at the 23 bucks version.
http://www.caltric.com/index.php/motorcycles.html/?find=suzuki-1982-gs850g---1982-117333

Edit: If I can find space in my economy to get the sh775, I will get it. Otherwise I may have to resort to cheaper r/r.
According to the caltric website, they should both fit, question is,is any of those two better than the other?

 

[2BRacing]

......I need to ask you, is it essential to get the sh775 r/r, or would the caltric ones work just as well? Edit: If I can find space in my economy to get the sh775, I will get it. Otherwise I may have to resort to cheaper r/r.
According to the caltric website, they should both fit, question is,is any of those two better than the other?

As explained in post #28, the way in which the SH775 (series type) R/R works is very different to the way any other shunt type R/R works.

Yes, they will all work in your motorcycle, BUT if you want your new stator to have a long, healthy life, you MUST get the series type SH775. This is even more important if you plan to replace the indicator and headlight bulbs with LED versions which draw less current than the old bulbs.

 

[noratx]

Hmm, I guess that I would have to find room for the sh775 r/r then. Even though I am limited in the economy, i prefer not having to redo this in a year or 3.

So, will try to get new readings on the stator in an hour or so, and be ready to order whats needed after that.

I did understand that the sh775 was different from others, but guess I hoped that the caltric ones might have been different too. ( I guess you would have suggested it if they were though).

I dont think I will convert to leds though,I prefer a nold bike to be as close to stock as possible. The only thing I am ever going to dd to it, are a couple of USB chargers.

 

[noratx]

So then, new readings taken, leg-to-leg on the stator, and the meter correctly configured.
They are almost the same as the last readings.
07.x Vac
03.x Vac
04.x Vac

All taken at 5000 rpm.

I also did a leg-to-leg and leg-to-ground resistance reading, which showed 0 resistance.

So, I take it as new stator is needed, and I will get the series SH775 R/R and a new gasket, and hope that when replacing them it will work better.
Now, to try save some money on shipping at least, I will try find somewhere that can sell me all 3 items at once.

I will search google and the forums, but if you know somewhere (especially european webshops, but american works just as well), I apreciate any suggestions.

 

[posplayr]

If those are leg to leg reading that stator is fried and without the sh 775 you will just fry the new one.

 

[noratx]

Posplayr: they were leg-to-leg readings. And... as I dont wish to go through this again, i will get the sh775.
Just trying to find somewhere where I can get both regulator and stator from the same source instead of having to pay 30 - 50 bucks for each shipping from US to Sweden.

I think there was a thread in the forums tellig where you could buy the sh775 and possibly also a stator, but I cant find it (I could be wrong as well).

I have so far only found places which only have one of the two.

You don't happen to know of anywhere, where I can get both?
Preferably european site, as it will get here both faster and cheaper, but US sites works just as well.

Edit: Couldn't find anywhere to buy everything from the same supplier.
Got the stator and gasket from Caltric, and the SH775 from a german supplier.
Hopefully it arrives soon, and I also hope that this will help without much more work.

I think, however, that the harness needs to be looked at, as well as converting to single point ground and getting rid of the headlamp loop.
However, I will save that for the winter season.
Right now I just want to be able to ride my bike without having to swap batteries every few days.

 

[noratx]

I received the SH775 regulator yesterday and are now just waiting for the stator to come through from the US (It havn't even left US yet sadly, but hopefully it's here within a week).

Now I need to ask a few questions, because I need to purchase some wires to wire it all up.
I have been looking at the installation instructions for the Solid Stats Power Box to get some recommendations at least when it comes to the gauge of the wires, but I am a bit hesitant, as I want to be sure to get it right.

Where I can buy the wires, they are measured in mm, and goes from 0.5 mm and up to a ot thicker diameters.

I have not measured the tickness of the existing cables, but I thought maybe some of you guys knows what thichness is best to use.
I would also like to, unless you don't recommend it, extend (by replacing) the battery cables with 2.5 - 5 centimeters (about 1 - 2 inches) while I am anyway poking around that area. The existing cables are a bit short and I'd prefer atleast to be able to lift the battery up from it's holder if I have to unplug it.

The hot wire is a lot thicher than the ground wire, but I have no clue what dimension to use.

Can I please ask you guys, what dimensions of wires should I order for the plus and minus pole for the battery, and what dimensions do you recommend for the wires to connect the stator and the R/R.
Preferably if you can, in mm and not ga or inch. I have found a converter from ga to inch and mm, but I find it confusing.

Thanks in advance!

 

[dantodd]

Personally I'd use 2.5mm. I would also not extend the battery leads and just disconnect the cables before lifting the battery. a few centimeters here or there won't make a huge difference but they start adding up over time and you really don't want loose wires as they tend to get flexed more and break strands. Also, I know it's a bit more expensive but wire for boats is really the best for use on your motorcycle. It has fine wire strands and they're usually fully tinned which makes them corrosion resistant as well as better about being flexed.

 

[noratx]

Thankyou dantodd,

I guess you mean 2.5mm for the battery? 2.5mm for the rest seems a bit too thick?
The reason for me wanting to extend the leads a bit, is because I don't feel entirely comfortable trying to disconnect the leads while the battery is fully sinked into it's cage.
I don't like when I get sparks if by accident are touching the frame with the tools when I try to disconnect the battery. It havn't happened on this bike yet, but did often on another bike I had.
I am not going to just extend by adding a few centimeters to the leads, but rather, if and where possible, replace the leads completely for longer ones.

When it comes to the price range of the leads, even if they are more expensive, I doubt it will be a considerable amount, since it's not several meters of wire I am going to need.

 

[dantodd]

Thankyou dantodd,

I guess you mean 2.5mm for the battery? 2.5mm for the rest seems a bit too thick?
The reason for me wanting to extend the leads a bit, is because I don't feel entirely comfortable trying to disconnect the leads while the battery is fully sinked into it's cage.
I don't like when I get sparks if by accident are touching the frame with the tools when I try to disconnect the battery. It havn't happened on this bike yet, but did often on another bike I had.
I am not going to just extend by adding a few centimeters to the leads, but rather, if and where possible, replace the leads completely for longer ones.

When it comes to the price range of the leads, even if they are more expensive, I doubt it will be a considerable amount, since it's not several meters of wire I am going to need.

Yes I was referring to the main battery lead from the RR to the positive terminal. I use 14 gauge wire which is closer to 2mm but I think 2.5 is the closest standard size. Disconnect the negative lead from the battery first, they if you do touch the frame while disconnecting the positive there will be no short and no sparks.

 

[noratx]

So, the regulator and statorhas finally arrived.
Today I had planned on swapping them both, unfortunately, things does not always go as planned.

I only had the time to swap the stator.
Now is the question... obviously I will have to change the regulator as well, I have bought it so I am not just going to let it sit on a shelve.

But am I taking a huge risk by using the bike for a few days before I change it?

I will be using it for perhaps 50, maybe 70 km/day.
How big is the risk that I will damage the stator during the next few days? If I have the time for it, i will swap the regulator on tuesday or thursday. At latest on saturday or sunday.

Also, I would like to ask, any of you who knows if I need any other bolts or modifications for the SH775 regulator? Or is everything just bolt on?

 

[noratx]

anyone?
I did try aearch the forum for answers to what could possibly be needed, but didnt find anything.