Results from fuel filter

[yogib]

Mike, Keith is on the money do exactly what he says in his last post,I'm an amatuer and he makes sense to me. I think that is your best route,shoot sounds like you have all they parts.Oh yeah adjust the valves before you sync the carbs and after you (rebuild/damn good cleaning) the carbs.Don

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Mike, no way in the world I'm mad.
That's the problem with typed words but no voice behind them. And when I said do what Earl says in a previous post, it was because I could see you're confused and need to move along either way. You'll learn in the long run and that's what's important.
My experience with carbs (and a lot of other things) is to just do a complete job. Never just a half job or one carb, etc. It saves time in the long run.
I realize carbs can be a bit scary for some and it's easy to take shortcuts.
As for this thing of synch vs carb clean/o-ring check, I only stick to my guns because you describe classic intake leak symptoms. It doesn't matter if a spray test didn't expose any leaks.
I will say that if you were bound to try to do the least work and see what happens, I would then clean up the throttle plates as best you can. If they appear to operate smoothly, then go ahead and try your synch. As I said, an erratic/sticking idle can be caused by sticking plates. But much more often it's an intake leak and intake leaks will not be cured by a synch...waste of time.
My standard procedure is to clean/inspect carbs, replace any o-rings, inspect/set floats, bench synch followed by vacuum tool synch.

 

[UncleMike]

Mike, no way in the world I'm mad.
That's the problem with typed words but no voice behind them. And when I said do what Earl says in a previous post, it was because I could see you're confused and need to move along either way. You'll learn in the long run and that's what's important.
My experience with carbs (and a lot of other things) is to just do a complete job. Never just a half job or one carb, etc. It saves time in the long run.
I realize carbs can be a bit scary for some and it's easy to take shortcuts.
As for this thing of synch vs carb clean/o-ring check, I only stick to my guns because you describe classic intake leak symptoms. It doesn't matter if a spray test didn't expose any leaks.
I will say that if you were bound to try to do the least work and see what happens, I would then clean up the throttle plates as best you can. If they appear to operate smoothly, then go ahead and try your synch. As I said, an erratic/sticking idle can be caused by sticking plates. But much more often it's an intake leak and intake leaks will not be cured by a synch...waste of time.
My standard procedure is to clean/inspect carbs, replace any o-rings, inspect/set floats, bench synch followed by vacuum tool synch.

Sounds good. Again, thank you.

 

[earlfor]

I promised myself a while back, I would no longer get into debates defending my position. If I say something and someone doesnt agree with me, thats fine, they can ignore me. I dont mind, really I dont. However Keith, I will explain as I dont think its understood why my advice in this instance. I dont disagree with anything you have said technically, but I do think there is a possibility your conclusion could be premature.

A couple of points about Mike's bike. Its a 16 valve engine, and that means it does not have induction boot "O" rings, so they certainly cant be leaking.
The bike only sat up for about a month. Gas does not varnish and clog in a month. (admittedly, we dont know the history prior to that)
The induction boots (mike states) are soft, pliable and uncracked. I will assume he is smart enough to check that clamps are tight.
He has found no indication of induction leaks. (I will admit there can still be a leak though)
The bike is somewhat difficult to start, but basically runs fine in higher rpm ranges once warmed up. It starts with the choke circuit normally, so that part is functioning properly. It runs at higher rpm, so mains, needles and spraybars are probably fine. Possible problem is idle circuit. All things considered, there is a good possibility mixture and synch will rectify that.
If idle mixtures are too lean across the board and two cylinders are extremely lean, there is a possibility that when the engine reaches operating temp, it is enough to cause his low rpm/idle range stumble/shut down. Yes, you could rebuild the carbs, but it is not certain (in my mind) that they need it.
In this case, doing a carb synch and mixture adjustment is a trouble shooting exercise. I can synch and adjust a carb bank in 5 minutes any day of the week. I have at times, been able to do the job and been putting away my tools in less than 60 seconds. Its a small investment in time to rule out (or in) the requirement for a carb rebuild. If no improvement is realized, then you do a carb rebuild. Either way, all you have lost is 5 minutes of your time.

I say this because I have been in this position before and sometimes, it (against the usual odds) IS nothing more than a matter of adjustment.

Earl

Mike, no way in the world I'm mad.
That's the problem with typed words but no voice behind them. And when I said do what Earl says in a previous post, it was because I could see you're confused and need to move along either way. You'll learn in the long run and that's what's important.
My experience with carbs (and a lot of other things) is to just do a complete job. Never just a half job or one carb, etc. It saves time in the long run.

 

[Cajun Cycler]

I recommend a Briggs and Straton Lawnmower filter. that's what I use and it doesn't constrict flow, cheap and easy to find at auto parts stores, Home Depot, Lowes, or lawnmower shops.

 

[yogib]

This place is a wealth of knoweledge,every time I'm here I learn alot.At one point on my bike the carbs were way out of balance but it would still idle.Now if I could only learn to keep my mouth shut!Don

 

[earlfor]

Things are not always what the appear to be. Sometimes, it can be much more simple than that.

Earl

This place is a wealth of knoweledge,every time I'm here I learn alot.At one point on my bike the carbs were way out of balance but it would still idle.Now if I could only learn to keep my mouth shut!Don

 

[yogib]

I'm with ya Earl,you both are right(KK).It's hard to diagnose anything sitting in front of the computer.All we have is our experience,you two seem to have alot.I didn't know the 16v had boots only.I'm trying to be a sponge.Don

 

[tconroy]

Sounds good. Again, thank you.

Mike, listen to Keith!!!Without him my bike would not be running so smoothley right now.Carbs are overwhelming cause you dont want to mess them up and be without a ride.If Keith told me my bike would run better if I turned the carbs upside down ,I'd do it !!!LOL!!!!

 

[UncleMike]

Mike, listen to Keith!!!Without him my bike would not be running so smoothley right now.Carbs are overwhelming cause you dont want to mess them up and be without a ride.If Keith told me my bike would run better if I turned the carbs upside down ,I'd do it !!!LOL!!!!

Everyone's a critic.

 

[earlfor]

Keith and I can both work on a bike and we both see the same signs. The problem comes from being on different highways to the same destination.

Uhhhh, no, I'm not sure what that says. LOL

Earl

I'm with ya Earl,you both are right(KK).It's hard to diagnose anything sitting in front of the computer.All we have is our experience,you two seem to have alot.I didn't know the 16v had boots only.I'm trying to be a sponge.Don

 

[yogib]

What's it like riding in a 650HP GTO?That has got to be a one hell of a ride!Don

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Again, no problem (or pride) here. I also admit I didn't read every word in this thread and still haven't.
I did read where his warmed up idle was at 2,000 rpm? He's done nothing to cure that. There is a chance that sticky plates may have something to do with it. So try a synch....but, clean the plates first. No sense synching when something's wrong. And we can all agree that an idle that rises like that (heat related) would be an intake leak or dirty/sticking plates.
I just see short cut taking here and it always ends up wasting your time.
My first point is to just clean the plates and check for smooth operation. If smooth, then synch.
Just a little communication problem/understanding here, nothing else.

 

[UncleMike]

Again, no problem (or pride) here. I also admit I didn't read every word in this thread and still haven't.
I did read where his warmed up idle was at 2,000 rpm? He's done nothing to cure that. There is a chance that sticky plates may have something to do with it. So try a synch....but, clean the plates first. No sense synching when something's wrong. And we can all agree that an idle that rises like that (heat related) would be an intake leak or dirty/sticking plates.
I just see short cut taking here and it always ends up wasting your time.
My first point is to just clean the plates and check for smooth operation. If smooth, then synch.
Just a little communication problem/understanding here, nothing else.

My warmed up idle isn't 2,000rpms. When it will first idle on its own, it will do so, weakly, at around 1000-1100rpms. When it's fully warm, it's more like 1500rpms, but if while idling in nuetral I give it some gas, say up to 4000rpms, the idle will then go to around 2000-2100rpms for a little while before settling down to 1500 again.

I promise, I'm not taking short cuts. I just figured I'd stick with the advice of one expert at a time, rather than doing every single thing that comes along.

I'll get there, I promise.

 

[Hoomgar]

I just see short cut taking here and it always ends up wasting your time.

And all my comments Mike were simply based on this one statement Keith just made. Nothing more.

but if while idling in nuetral I give it some gas, say up to 4000rpms, the idle will then go to around 2000-2100rpms for a little while before settling down to 1500 again.

This is also a classic tell tale sign of the same problem. Intake leaks will cause that.

 

[UncleMike]

And all my comments Mike were simply based on this one statement Keith just made. Nothing more.


This is also a classic tell tale sign of the same problem. Intake leaks will cause that.

No worries, brother. I understand.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Yes. 1,500 rpm's hot is too much of a rise from a cold 1,000/1,100 rpm. Either intake leak or mechanical problem with one or more throttle plates.
Also, a "hanging idle", where you rev it a little and the rpm's are slow to return, is most often a lean condition or intake leak, but can be the throttle plates again.

 

[UncleMike]

Yes. 1,500 rpm's hot is too much of a rise from a cold 1,000/1,100 rpm. Either intake leak or mechanical problem with one or more throttle plates.
Also, a "hanging idle", where you rev it a little and the rpm's are slow to return, is most often a lean condition or intake leak, but can be the throttle plates again.

I can't freakin' wait for these mercury sticks to come. I also noticed that the throttle cable adjuster was broken, and the PO had cleverly "fixed" it with some black duct tape. Had to look close for that one, as he had even cut the tape to fit the edges.

Something else on order,...

 

[UncleMike]

Well, you guys win. I talked to the PO this morning, and he mentioned that while he rode it almost daily since he used it as a commuter, the bike HAD sat for extended periods with the original owner.

That would have been nice to know in one of the other hundred conversations we've had.

So the carbs are off, except for the choke/throttle plate, which has stripped screws and is currently soaking in PB.

Any tips, hints or "also checks" I should do?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[UncleMike]

Okay, those screws are off. Let them soak in PB for about and hour and a half and gave 'em a try.

They were stripping right away. Real soft. So I just took out a pair of pliers, squeezed real hard and twisted. Came right off.

Upon first inspection, the throttle plates looked like they were closed almost completely. Holding them up to the light, I can see a little light sneaking under them. #3 had the most open, but still it was barely anything.

Could this account for some problems?