Symphony of destruction

[49er]

I have a 1230 kit. My buddy has the 1150 crank I need to purchase.

Do the research and triple check all your measurements. If it's a road bike, don't be too greedy for HP. Concentrate on torque. The correct carbs with the right needle is the key.

Not going to run injection are ya?
I was talking to a mate who tunes and races midgets that run GSXR750 's . He told me that some of the top contenders have just ditched their injection for RS's. Now that's telling!!

 

[Guest]

I have a set of RS 40s. Bet I don't blow up with those.

 

[49er]

I have a set of RS 40s. Bet I don't blow up with those.

Yull blowup just as easy with those as any other carbs, if ya get TOO GREEDY!!!

 

[posplayr]

Ray is right. What he is saying is that Bill was running too much timing for the elevated CR with that modded head. The lower octane fuel you used, just lit the fuse.

You've really got serious timing issues when an engine starts pinging at low rpms and low loads. The safe option is to park it up until you address the problem.

I think this is a "chicken and the egg" discussion. With stock timing and octane booster the motor would have run fine and no issues. With Regular gas and stock advance is too much to preclude predetonation.

Knowing what Bill knows now, he would probably make sure he has sufficent octane. If not he could carry a timing light and reduce his advance when running on regular.

U guys are the experts, but I would say he had inadequate octane for the CR he was running.

 

[Nessism]

If the engine is detonating hard enough to melt down a cylinder wouldn't it be quite audable? Low level detonation that you can't hear wouldn't put a hole in a piston would it?

 

[posplayr]

If the engine is detonating hard enough to melt down a cylinder wouldn't it be quite audable? Low level detonation that you can't hear wouldn't put a hole in a piston would it?

Ask Bill, but I assume if he heard something he would have pulled over before Symphony of Destruction

 

[Guest]

I didn't hear it until I pulled over and heard the piston banging on the head.
This is after Jim pointed out that I was leaving quite the smoke cloud.

 

[850 Combat]

My brothers and I (3 on GS's) rode from Redway to Ferndale as part of our Oregon Coast tour in August '08.

That would be a crummy place to break down.

Beautiful ride though.

 

[Guest]

My brothers and I (3 on GS's) rode from Redway to Ferndale as part of our Oregon Coast tour in August '08.

That would be a crummy place to break down.

Beautiful ride though.

Did you see the hippies in Honeydew?

 

[49er]

Knowing what Bill knows now, he would probably make sure he has sufficent octane. If not he could carry a timing light and reduce his advance when running on regular.[/QUOTE]

No need to carry a timing light. If you must run so close to destruction, mark the stator plate and the outer housing with alignment marks with a fine felt pen, where you like to run your advance. When you can't get the octane you need simply retard the plate by 2-4mm. When you want to live on the edge again, you've got the marks to reset it to.

IMO, what your doing is playing Russian Roulette, but using 3 slugs in the revolver instead of one!!

 

[Steveb64]

No, damn CV's and pods

YEAH! Ditch the CV's! I had Keihin CR specials on mine pretty much all it's life - and only killed a piston once, when I had tweaked the timing a little too much, and at 240kph chasing an FZR1000 and a couple of GSXR11's, it gave up the ghost with a long plume of smoke... Melted a hole through the #3 piston I could stick my finger into.

If you want something a little more modern - go with the Keihin FCR's, as they have an accelerator pump, and REALLY liven things up - I've just put a set on my 900 and WOO HOO! I'd thought that the Duc had pretty good throttle response, even for CV carbs, but the FCR's were a revelation!

 

[Guest]

RS's have an accelerator pump too. The 1230 kits are nice....my buddy had one, with nitrous.....IMO, his bike pulled harder than a Blackbird I sampled (even without the nitrous). But the downside was the heat issue....even with the milder Canadian summer temps, I would feel the heat on the inside of my shins, after only a few miles....this was with an 1150 size oil cooler installed. Drastic measures will have to be taken, to control the heat issue for California riding, IMHO.:-k

Tony.

 

[49er]

RS's have an accelerator pump too. The 1230 kits are nice....my buddy had one, with nitrous.....IMO, his bike pulled harder than a Blackbird I sampled (even without the nitrous). But the downside was the heat issue....even with the milder Canadian summer temps, I would feel the heat on the inside of my shins, after only a few miles....this was with an 1150 size oil cooler installed. Drastic measures will have to be taken, to control the heat issue for California riding, IMHO.:-k

Tony.

Yeah, excessive ambient temps are just as conducive of meltdowns as too much advance, on these air cooled engines. I'm always weary of anything approaching 40 deg C, whenever I'm fanging the 850 out. The really big bore kits would be even worse.

Steveb64, my brother did the same on his RD350 a few years back. I ported and tuned it for road racing and he went and fitted the wrong heat range plugs and destroyed the plugs and pistons in short time.
His attention to detail improved immensely after that experience.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Yeah... I dont see a 1200 kit of any size being a good idea for daily rider/street use, ESPECIALLY in your neck of the woods Bill... Im FAR from a drag/bore kit guru, but everything ive read, heard and seen from those that ARE would suggest that a bore of that size, at least on a standard mill, leaves a snarling, drooling, weeping, hot, twitchy, finicky and fickle monster... For me, it would be ablsolute hell, rendering the bike useless and no fun to ride unless it was in a straight line. The hell involved in keeping something like that running, clean, and in gas would far outweigh the kick in the ass benefits.. But, again, just my opinion.


At some point, over the next year, couple years, however long it takes, I will be building a "hottted up" motor. Either an 1100 or 1150, from the crank up, for a "dream cafe" project out of an 1100E. But, if i go with an 1100 motor, it wont get anything bigger than 1166. Retaining durability and rideability are a big goal with me, and again, from everything ive read, getting larger than that on the 1100 motor makes for certain PITAS... Now if i manage to get a hold of an 1150, I might do 1229 or the like...maybe..

Either way man, whatever you do, good luck, and I will be watching with interest.. Pullin for you man, you're FARRRRRR more patient than I..

 

[49er]

At some point, over the next year, couple years, however long it takes, I will be building a "hottted up" motor. Either an 1100 or 1150, from the crank up, for a "dream cafe" project out of an 1100E. But, if i go with an 1100 motor, it wont get anything bigger than 1166. Retaining durability and rideability are a big goal with me, and again, from everything ive read, getting larger than that on the 1100 motor makes for certain PITAS... Now if i manage to get a hold of an 1150, I might do 1229 or the like...maybe.. ..

Wise assessment of your options. Besides heating issues, you have to use radical solutions when the sealing areas adjacent to the bores become marginal.

I've put aside a set of near new CR31 Specials for the 1100G project. With these, I won't need to open the ports up and they will flow way better than the stock BS 34's. Just some pocket, valve guide and transition work to the pockets. I'll push the CR up to 11-1 on that one, sticking with 2 mm OS JE pistons. As with the 850, I'll bring the custom piston weights down to the stock weights.
I'm still toying with fitting pods as I can't find any stock airbox rubbers around 50mm dia. It's not that I can't tune to the pods, but I'm not keen on wearing the effects of weather conditions influencing my performance from week to week. The needles on the CR Specials have 7 clip positions to choose from, and I have 3 sets to play with. Luxury or confusion??

 

[Kris V]

I dont see a 1200 kit of any size being a good idea for daily rider/street use, ESPECIALLY in your neck of the woods


What kinda smoke you blowin there kid??? I run a 1230 with turbo AND nitrous every day to work and thats 100 mile round trip:-s I used to do do it with a 1327 same trip in the dead of summer with temps around 110 to 120. NEVER A PROBLEM.

 

[Guest]

As a new motorcycle engine builder I've reached my quota of two blown motors.
I've learned my lesson.
Quit squeezing the last bit of juice out of the orange.

 

[Nessism]

As a new motorcycle engine builder I've reached my quota of two blown motors.
I've learned my lesson.
Quit squeezing the last bit of juice out of the orange.

So what are you going to do Bill?

 

[49er]

As a new motorcycle engine builder I've reached my quota of two blown motors.
I've learned my lesson.
Quit squeezing the last bit of juice out of the orange.

If you're going to build a trick drag motor, you'll need to keep squeezing close to the last drop out of the orange. If you use other peoples experiences as a yard stick, you can minimise the disappointments though.

Is this new 1230 for the road or the drags?

 

[Dave8338]

I agree with Kris in that it is not what you build but how it is built. You can take "nearly" any engine, built it to the max and run it. Driveability may become a pain in the arse but if built correctly, it won't come apart.

The margin for error just gets tighter the higher you build an engine...

I have three marks on my Mustangs' dizzy and it all depends what I'm doing with the car as to where the dizzy gets set. With a full electronic ignition many options are available to adjust the timing on the fly.

I like old school.

Build it BIG Bill, just make sure to build it right and tight. ray:

Hey Kris...so is there any truth in needing a timing curve to this whole "Turbo Thing"? :-k