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New R/R, new stator, no charging

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    #1

    New R/R, new stator, no charging

    Hi all,
    I have been chasing a charging problem that began when I installed an new SH 775.
    I have followed recommendations for a SPG at mounting point of R/R. Dedicated ground from there
    to Batt -, to engine, and to mounting point of started relay where it contacts harness ground.

    Reading at battery ignition off is 12.7 volts.
    Reading at battery, engine running 4-5k 12.6.
    Checked stator voltage 1-2, 1-3, 2-3, 10 volts per leg.
    Stator leads to ground .8 - 1.0 ohms.

    Pulled stator, not obvious anything badly melted, but appeared black, looked its age as an original.
    New stator installed.

    Retested:

    No charging at battery...still. Stator leads show 65+ volts at 4500 rpm.

    I then suspected/wondered if the new R/R was not working or was bad.

    Not sure this would work, I tried to take a reading from R/R, leaving stator leads attached, but disconnected R/R outputs and taking a reading directly from R/R output terminals. Reading is 0 volts at 4 k rpm.

    Ideas on how to determine if R/R is bad?

    Thanks,
    Tags: None
    #2
    You can do a diode check to check the Rectifier portion, but the Regulator portion can only be done with the engine running and a good Rectifier in operation.


    Meter settings will depend on the meter. If you have a "Diode test" function, use it. If not, use the "OHMS" function, but the procedure and readings will be about the same for both.
    With the R/R disconnected from the bike:
    Red meter lead on the red R/R wire, black meter lead on each of the three input wires.
    Meter should show "overload", whether it's "-1-", "OL", whatever.
    Switch meter leads, put the black lead on the red R/R wire, red lead on each of the three input wires.
    Meter should show about .5 for each wire.
    Put black meter lead on the black R/R wire, red meter lead on each of the three input wires.
    Meter should show "overload", whether it's "-1-", "OL", whatever.
    Switch meter leads, put the red lead on the black R/R wire, black lead on each of the three input wires.
    Meter should show about .5 for each wire.
    Four groups of three readings, twelve readings in all.
    If any ONE of them is not as expected, the whole R/R is trash.

    If ALL of the readings are good and you still get no charging, the Regulator portion is trash.


    .
    sigpic
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    Comment

      #3
      Did you wire the stator directly into the R/R, bypassing the factory harness?
      Ed

      To measure is to know.

      Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

      Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

      Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

      KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

      Comment

        #4
        Nessism,
        I wired the R/R per factory, sending the hot lead through the harness.
        I have a diode test function on the meter I have. They direct me to do two
        test: forward and reverse voltage. I get no reading (in other words "1").
        Directions say the device is "open" when the readings are this.
        Steve, I also tried to do the "ohm" tests you described.
        All tests return no measurable readings ("1").

        Comment

          #5
          What type of R/R are you using, shunt type or series type? 65+ (what is the +?) volts from the stator is telling me the stator is getting weak.
          sigpicMrBill Been a GSR member on and off since April 2002
          1980 GS 750E Bought new in Feb of 1980
          2015 CAN AM RTS


          Stuff I've done to my bike:dancing: 1100E front end with new Sonic springs, 1100E swing arm conversion with new Progressive shocks installed, 530 sprockets/chain conversion, new SS brake lines, new brake pads. New SS fasteners through out. Rebuilt carbs, new EBC clutch springs and horn installed. New paint. Motor runs strong.

          Comment

            #6
            "Not sure this would work, I tried to take a reading from R/R, leaving stator leads attached, but disconnected R/R outputs and taking a reading directly from R/R output terminals. Reading is 0 volts at 4 k rpm."

            Skip this- sounds like R/R I torture,as no place for output to go.
            the diode test on the SH-775 is useless, as SCR's won't turn on (conduct) unless triggered by their control circuitry.
            Use a jumper wire from r/r positive output to battery positive and see what you get running.
            1981 gs650L

            "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by tom203 View Post
              "Not sure this would work, I tried to take a reading from R/R, leaving stator leads attached, but disconnected R/R outputs and taking a reading directly from R/R output terminals. Reading is 0 volts at 4 k rpm."

              Skip this- sounds like R/R I torture,as no place for output to go.
              the diode test on the SH-775 is useless, as SCR's won't turn on (conduct) unless triggered by their control circuitry.
              Use a jumper wire from r/r positive output to battery positive and see what you get running.
              Some of his tests are suspect like the leg to stator ground tests. But now with a new stator and 65vac at 4500 that is probably ok.
              sounds like the sh775 is DOA.
              No way to test it by itself other than put it into known good bike which he seems to have now and no joy.

              Comment

                #8
                MrBill, I have a fairly new SH 775. Installed in last month. 65+ volts is the range of voltage readings I am getting now from all three legs of new stator.
                Tom, I will try jumpering from R/R to battery and take a reading there (under the presumption that the R/R needs to see a "load" to output.

                Thanks,

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by rlloydl View Post
                  MrBill, I have a fairly new SH 775. Installed in last month. 65+ volts is the range of voltage readings I am getting now from all three legs of new stator.
                  Tom, I will try jumpering from R/R to battery and take a reading there (under the presumption that the R/R needs to see a "load" to output.

                  Thanks,
                  So you had the SH-775 installed and it was working and is now dead?

                  Comment

                    #10
                    "....I have a fairly new SH 775." But you first said you installed a new SH-775, so is it new new or pre-owned,as in used?
                    1981 gs650L

                    "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Posplayr,
                      Yes,the SH 775 was installed and working near as I could tell. Went for a two hour highway ride. On return home I noticed that 5 gear lamp was going dim when I was above 75 mph. Next morning I checked the charge on the battery with ignition off and battery was 12.8 volts. Couldn't leave well enough alone. I changed R/R negative from grounding to SPG to direct to battery negative post. At that point forward, I could not again achieve a charging condition when testing across battery terminals. Ultimately I checked VAC voltage from old stator and discovered 10 volts each leg. At that time stator legs to ground were .8-1.0 ohms resistance. I ordered and replaced stator which lands me to where I am now. By going with the theory that the R/R will not flow forward current without sensing load, I will jumper outputs to battery and measure charging at battery. Thanks

                      Comment

                        #12
                        So I just now jumpers R/R outputs to battery and took measurements.
                        Battery with ignition off shows 12.18 (needs recharged, but fine for this test).
                        Test across battery terminals with jumpered R/R leads shows 11.7 volts, even with revving
                        up to 4k. No charging here.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by rlloydl View Post
                          So I just now jumpers R/R outputs to battery and took measurements.
                          Battery with ignition off shows 12.18 (needs recharged, but fine for this test).
                          Test across battery terminals with jumpered R/R leads shows 11.7 volts, even with revving
                          up to 4k. No charging here.
                          I think if you go re-read the Quick test and just focus on that you would have less problems. You said you think the SH-775 was working before "as best I can tell". That does not inspire much confidence and other than that doesn't suggest at all how you came to that conclusion.

                          based on the fact you have changed the stator and you have tested it to +65 VAC you should have something voltage above the quiescent battery voltage out of the R/R. Since you don't, I suspect the SH-775 is toast.

                          Why it is gone is another question. Have you been jumping the bike from a running car or anything else that might have damaged the electrical? There is basically sensitive electronics logic inside the SH-775 ; depending upon how well it is protected and what you might have done it could be blown.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Tom, the SH 775 was new, purchased from 2 WheelPros on July 2, 2014. That was what I meant by fairly new.
                            For the price and from the advice read here in the forum, I was not going to buy something off "fleabay" or buy something
                            used.

                            Thanks for your interest and assistance.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Posplayr,
                              More than likely, the R/R is toast as you said.
                              You guess right that I am not confident doing this electrical work.
                              I have not attempted to jump start the bike with anything.
                              My biggest mistake was with the way I wired in the new R/R
                              to begin with. I bought connectors and adapter plugs from Eastern Beaver.
                              Nice and waterproof setup , only not so nice to test. A pain to disconnect stuff to access leads
                              in order to take test voltages. My stator leads were connected
                              directly to R/R with not connectors in between. My only guess as to what happened to R/R is
                              that the stator it was connected to was failing, given the stator legs were putting out
                              pretty low voltages.

                              Comment

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