Budget AFR/EGO Setup

[posplayr]

I have an Innovate red DB gauge with LC-1, like this:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/INNOVATE-379...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f17063298
Can be found cheaper.
It also allows you to connect it up to a laptop and go for a ride and get better data at throttle openings that wouldnt allow you to look down at a gauge. BTW the red led gauge is hard to read in bright light.
Mine is a permanent install with the sniffer bung welded to the exhaust, with the ability to unhook it with a bullet connector. They seem to draw quite a lot of power so I leave it unhooked unless I need to use it.

If you run the O2 sensor in the exhaust stream without having it plugged in and powered you wil ruin it.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Yeah I'm starting to realise that... bugger!

There's this for $229:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Innovate...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a144927dd

And of course they just go up from there...

This is closest to the one you want. It has a serial output which connects to a serial input (or a USB to serial dongle) on a PC and comes with software to do your data logging on your PC.
It is made for permanent installation but could easily be set up to be removeable. The only problem would be having a laptop/tablet/notepad on your bike logging data. Then you could concentrate on riding.
This is how you would do it:
At home or whatever, connect everything up. If the sensor is to be placed in the pipe at that time, you will need to turn it on. Very easy, the system is designed to do that. (If you run an O2 sensor in the pipe unpowered it will burn it out.) Then you go to the place where you want to do your datalogging. Boot the PC. Load the datalogging software and start a log. Make your run. I tend to do 2-3 at a time. From looking at the logs you can tell where things happen (AFR changes). Stop your run(s) go to where ever, export the data into a comma delimited file, load it into Excel, find the data of interest, do some graphs, and you have your results. Easy-peasy once you do it a few times.
The LM-2 is stand alone. It makes its own datalog, which you then download to the PC and do the analysis work. I put my LM-1 in my tank bag and start the runs, stop the LM-1, go home and look at data. End result is the same.

 

[Guest]

Here is a picture of the sniffer. I patterned it after another design I found in a review of the LM-2. I used a section of black steel pipe, and welded ends on for the brass fittings as well as the bung to mount the O2 sensor.

The idea is to get good flow through the pipe so that there is no lag in response of the sensor. The steel pipe is basically straight through using the thin 1/4" copper tubing that is about 2-3 foot long (just beyond the gap in the collector/mid pipe. )

The rubber tubing gets hot and more copper can be substituted. The length of rubber tubing is to avoid cold air from coming back into the sensor and distorting the readings that way.

Thanks Jim! I will add that to the memory banks for now...

 

[Guest]

This is closest to the one you want. It has a serial output which connects to a serial input (or a USB to serial dongle) on a PC and comes with software to do your data logging on your PC.
It is made for permanent installation but could easily be set up to be removeable. The only problem would be having a laptop/tablet/notepad on your bike logging data. Then you could concentrate on riding.
This is how you would do it:
At home or whatever, connect everything up. If the sensor is to be placed in the pipe at that time, you will need to turn it on. Very easy, the system is designed to do that. (If you run an O2 sensor in the pipe unpowered it will burn it out.) Then you go to the place where you want to do your datalogging. Boot the PC. Load the datalogging software and start a log. Make your run. I tend to do 2-3 at a time. From looking at the logs you can tell where things happen (AFR changes). Stop your run(s) go to where ever, export the data into a comma delimited file, load it into Excel, find the data of interest, do some graphs, and you have your results. Easy-peasy once you do it a few times.
The LM-2 is stand alone. It makes its own datalog, which you then download to the PC and do the analysis work. I put my LM-1 in my tank bag and start the runs, stop the LM-1, go home and look at data. End result is the same.

That makes sense, will definitely have to give this some more thought... for now I think it will have to go on the wishlist...

If I had funds, I would definitely do it, just have to wait a bit I think...

 

[posplayr]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1303763&postcount=12

There is a plot of my various data from myJM-2 setup so you can see what AFR,RPM,SPEED and temp all look like.

 

[salty_monk]

So when are you going to lend it to me?

 

[gearhead13]

If you run the O2 sensor in the exhaust stream without having it plugged in and powered you wil ruin it.

Really? I would take it out but the kit didnt come with the plug
I did look at the innovate forums but they are about as useful as **** on a bull, or so it seems.
Nowhere can I find what amount of power the db/lc1 setup uses. Seems like it drains my battery so I unplugged it.

 

[gearhead13]

Its hard to decipher just the a/f readings by themself. A tps would be helpful, but an rpm input would be better. Hard to find carbs with a tps. With an ssi-4, you can add a few more sensors to the data, another $130. Or get what Jim has for $500? or something, no laptop needed, just an sd card.

 

[koolaid_kid]

You can buy an O2 plug anywhere. Make sure of 3 things: It has a socket head on it instead of an allen socket. It must be stainless steel. When you install it, use lots of anti-seize.

 

[koolaid_kid]

The problem is our bikes are too old to use the fancy stuff. What Jim has is the Cadillac for our bikes.
Using just AFR data takes a lot of practice and iterations. You have to be able to read where you started your run and where you end it, then figure out which slice of data you really care about.
You still have to smooth the data to make sense of it.

 

[posplayr]

Really? I would take it out but the kit didnt come with the plug
I did look at the innovate forums but they are about as useful as **** on a bull, or so it seems.
Nowhere can I find what amount of power the db/lc1 setup uses. Seems like it drains my battery so I unplugged it.

see attached from LM-2 manual page 12

 

[gearhead13]

The problem is our bikes are too old to use the fancy stuff. What Jim has is the Cadillac for our bikes.
Using just AFR data takes a lot of practice and iterations. You have to be able to read where you started your run and where you end it, then figure out which slice of data you really care about.
You still have to smooth the data to make sense of it.

Ok, I have a couple saved files, one of them I cant figure out, can you take a look at them?
I must have missed that warning or forgot, I just got ****ed at my bike not starting and unplugged it. I dont know if the gauge is draining my battery but im sure it doesnt help
If it stated the power usage somewhere I would have a better idea.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Ok, I have a couple saved files, one of them I cant figure out, can you take a look at them?
I must have missed that warning or forgot, I just got ****ed at my bike not starting and unplugged it. I dont know if the gauge is draining my battery but im sure it doesnt help
If it stated the power usage somewhere I would have a better idea.

I can look at the data, but there is a slight problem. I would need to know what was going on afa the engine. When I make a run on the bike, I know what I did and check the data immediately, so I am able to tell why the AFR changed.
I'll PM you an email address you can send it to.

 

[Guest]

The more I think about this the more I think I'd be better off holding off until I can afford an LM-2. I can do the cheaper ones, but the logging is the issue and I'd have to keep an eye on it at all times and remember where the throttle was at that time. Tricky!

At least with the LM-2 it shouldn't be hard to get the coil to trigger the RPM counter like I did with the Acewell gauge and I can log it all and that will help.

I had a look on eBay and throttle position sensors are a dime a dozen, but whether I can find one I can adapt to the Mikuni's is a different story... but logging that as well would make it all easy to analyse afterwards.

There's now an LM-2 basic kit which is $349, although I'd need to add the analog I/O cable for the RPM pickup which is another $33, but that's all a whole lot cheaper than the single channel LM-2 at $479 which has a bunch of stuff I don't really need. A Secure SD card would be the only other requirement but they're cheap as dirt.

 

[Guest]

Here is a picture of the sniffer. I patterned it after another design I found in a review of the LM-2. I used a section of black steel pipe, and welded ends on for the brass fittings as well as the bung to mount the O2 sensor.

The idea is to get good flow through the pipe so that there is no lag in response of the sensor. The steel pipe is basically straight through using the thin 1/4" copper tubing that is about 2-3 foot long (just beyond the gap in the collector/mid pipe. )

The rubber tubing gets hot and more copper can be substituted. The length of rubber tubing is to avoid cold air from coming back into the sensor and distorting the readings that way.

Jim, looking closer at this... is the rubber tubing really necessary? I understand what you're saying, but while you're on the move what's the chance of cold air coming in compared to the exhaust gases going out? I would think the chances of that would be pretty slim wouldn't it? Or was this a situational thing at the time you did it?

Basically I can't use the Innovate clamp on my pipe as it has a reverse megaphone on the end, so I'd need to make something up. I'm thinking a simple length of galvanised steel pipe (easy to get hold of) with a bung welded in stuffed as far down the pipe as I can get it would do the trick, along the lines of what you've done there.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Ok, I have a couple saved files, one of them I cant figure out, can you take a look at them?
I must have missed that warning or forgot, I just got ****ed at my bike not starting and unplugged it. I dont know if the gauge is draining my battery but im sure it doesnt help
If it stated the power usage somewhere I would have a better idea.

Got your file, it is in some proprietary format. I need a comma delimited file. Your data capture app should be able to save it as one. Once you do that, send it to me again.

 

[gearhead13]

Got your file, it is in some proprietary format. I need a comma delimited file. Your data capture app should be able to save it as one. Once you do that, send it to me again.

Do you not have the innovate logworks software? Its a quick download:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php

 

[gearhead13]

I can change the file into a .csv is that the format you need?

 

[Guest]

This is getting scary because I'm letting my brain run wild now

There are heaps of these el-cheapo TPS' on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Throttle...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20c5e40860

I'm not sure how well I can explain what I'm thinking, but a piece of PVC pipe with cutouts to match the lugs on there would be glued onto some sort of spool or disk with the fishing wire attached, and then that can simply hook onto the end of the throttle actuator to try and ensure the response of the TPS is still linear.

At that price it's worth a try anyway right? Just a matter of trial and error and probably buying 2 or 3 in case they get busted...

It's going to be a few months before I'll have any chance of a budget to get an LM-2 so there's plenty of time to nut this stuff out in advance...

 

[posplayr]

This is getting scary because I'm letting my brain run wild now

There are heaps of these el-cheapo TPS' on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Throttle...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20c5e40860

I'm not sure how well I can explain what I'm thinking, but a piece of PVC pipe with cutouts to match the lugs on there would be glued onto some sort of spool or disk with the fishing wire attached, and then that can simply hook onto the end of the throttle actuator to try and ensure the response of the TPS is still linear.

At that price it's worth a try anyway right? Just a matter of trial and error and probably buying 2 or 3 in case they get busted...

It's going to be a few months before I'll have any chance of a budget to get an LM-2 so there's plenty of time to nut this stuff out in advance...

If you are interested in using a WB02 sensor, the best thing I could suggest is that do your measurements on a very long (1 mile) 6% uphill which is what I found worked very well of checking jetting. No too many of those around so a dyno would also work.

I did a series of pulls at 1/4 , 1/2 , 3/4 and WOT in each of 3,4 and 5th gear.
You need to get to get slowly past redline to check the jetting. For my ED that was just about right in 4th gear (at 110).

(maybe not WOT in 5th)

What you encounter is that when the bike is reving real fast the dynamics of the CV float moving up and down causes AFR changes and it is difficult to get a reading.

You need to keep the RPM rising more slowly as you hold the throttle position fixed steady. I put a piece of tape with marks at the indicated test position. Since I have speed and RPM I can always tell where I am.

The steep hill represents a load that keeps you from reving too fast in the upper gears. Although you start going pretty fast regardless. You need to slowly have RPM increase past redline. On my bike I can do that in 4th gear.