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Lost three cylinders.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Escobarclan
  • Start date Start date
E

Escobarclan

Guest
Good grief, when will it end?

I've done quite a few projects (none bikes) and have never been so frustrated. I know it's because this is my first bike and I don't know enough about em'.

1982 GS1000s Kat.

Fired up the Kat today, and for no apparent reason she is only firing in one cylinder (#1 cyl.). None of the other plugs have spark except #1. No points on her.

Can anyone toss me a bone?
 
Ignitor issue? On my old 450 the electrical connection on the ignitor was loose (I think) and the bike would loose all spark. Disconnected the plug, made it back, and the bike would run normal. Issue happened more than once and never showed up while driving, only after being put away over night. Not sure a bad ignitor would cause three cylinders to drop out though. Electrical is not my strong suit.

Good luck.
 
Okay, normally since you have only two coils to fire 4 cylinders, you will lose either 2 cyclinders (if a single coil goes bad) or all four (if both coils go bad - very unlikely to have both go bad at the same time). I would check the simple stuff first...are the plug wire caps tightly connected to the plugs, and, if you are using aftermarket coils, are the wire leads all the way into the coils mounted under the gas tank? If it will not start now, pull the sparkplugs and see if they are fouled.

Hap
 
Good point Hap. Since the coils fire cylinders in pairs it's strange that 1 and 4 are not firing. Maybe go back and check no. 4 spark. Not sure but low voltage at the battery can sometimes cause strange electrical issues. Wouldn't hurt to make sure you have a full charge - GS bikes are famous for charging system issues.

Good luck.
 
Yeah, brand new battery (2 weeks), also it"s fully charged now and still doing the same thing. What's wierd is I put a timing strobe on the wires and the plugs are firing in #'s 2 3 and 4, but not all the time. I swapped plugs between the bad cyl's and #1 which is always working (the engine runs of #1 only) and still #1 runs. None of the other exhausts are getting hot, just barely lukewarm.

I pulled the plugs off #'s 2 3 and 4 and the plugs aren't sparking, but if you get the plug close to an engine ground the plug arcs to the block itself. Plugs are gapped right too. This is really stumping me.

P.S. The coils are getting 10.5 volts, but to make sure it wasn't the problem I bridged a 12v wire to each coil straight from the batt. The coils ran the engine fine before with 10.5v anyway.
 
Escobarclan said:
Yeah, brand new battery (2 weeks), also it"s fully charged now and still doing the same thing. What's wierd is I put a timing strobe on the wires and the plugs are firing in #'s 2 3 and 4, but not all the time. I swapped plugs between the bad cyl's and #1 which is always working (the engine runs of #1 only) and still #1 runs. None of the other exhausts are getting hot, just barely lukewarm.

I pulled the plugs off #'s 2 3 and 4 and the plugs aren't sparking, but if you get the plug close to an engine ground the plug arcs to the block itself. Plugs are gapped right too. This is really stumping me.

P.S. The coils are getting 10.5 volts, but to make sure it wasn't the problem I bridged a 12v wire to each coil straight from the batt. The coils ran the engine fine before with 10.5v anyway.
Click to expand...

If the plugs arc when they are held near the block, the ignition is working.
 
Try putting the bike in a dark garage at night, headlight and tail light off or bulbs removed and start the bike. If there is any hot wire rubbed bare and grounding or any short to ground, you will be able to see it arc.

Minimum voltage to the coils should be about 12v. Electronic ignitions cease to function around 9.8 volts and they function poorly at anything much less than 12v.

Earl
 
Ok, update, and thanks for the info guys.

I had tested the "at coil" voltage previously and it showed 10.5v, but the bike still ran (not great but theres some carb tweaking needed). So what's different now?

I swapped coils around and #1 was still the only cyl firing, so coils are ruled out. I swapped plugs around and again #1 firing only.

The plugs ARE getting some kind of charge. They won't spark but they will arc to the block. You can also see the plugs kind of arc inside the 'barrel' or the ceramic area alittle too. Tkent, I see what you mean iff the plugs are charged the ign. is working, but is it working right?

I'm going to get new plugs tomorrow since these came with the bike and I don"t trust them. But I think it won't make a difference.

One thing I noticed is when I get the bike revved up the other exhausts get alittle warm like they're hittting every now and then.

Now I'm looking at the Igniter but there's no visible way to disconnect it, anyone know about ignitors?
 
Stop everything and change the plugs. If the plugs are fouled, nothing you do will help. It may be nothing more than you have three crap plugs in it.

Well............not entirely exactly. 10 volts to the coils is well into "no go" land. :-)

Earl

Escobarclan said:
Ok, update, and thanks for the info guys.

I had tested the "at coil" voltage previously and it showed 10.5v, but the bike still ran (not great but theres some carb tweaking needed). So what's different now?

I swapped coils around and #1 was still the only cyl firing, so coils are ruled out. I swapped plugs around and again #1 firing only.

The plugs ARE getting some kind of charge. They won't spark but they will arc to the block. You can also see the plugs kind of arc inside the 'barrel' or the ceramic area alittle too. Tkent, I see what you mean iff the plugs are charged the ign. is working, but is it working right?

I'm going to get new plugs tomorrow since these came with the bike and I don"t trust them. But I think it won't make a difference.

One thing I noticed is when I get the bike revved up the other exhausts get alittle warm like they're hittting every now and then.

Now I'm looking at the Igniter but there's no visible way to disconnect it, anyone know about ignitors?
Click to expand...
 
If the plugs arc to the engine but don't spark the plugs could be at fault. Arc inside the plug caps is not good. Plug must be big resistance. Plug caps go bad as well. NGK caps are about $5 each. Snip off about 1 cm of plug wire before installing new cap.

Good luck and don't give up. You will get it.
 
they werent arc'ing inside the boots or to the block when installed. when i grounded them to the block there was no spark, but you could see alittle spark INSIDE the plug. when i moved the plug away from the block it would arc to it at about a quarter of an inch awy or so. this showed me there was at least some signal coming from the ignition on each wire. Am I looking at an igniter problem? how can i tell?
 
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Sounds like the plugs are shot. Time for new ones.

Earl

Escobarclan said:
they werent arc'ing inside the boots or to the block when installed. when i grounded them to the block there was no spark, but you could see alittle spark INSIDE the plug. when i moved the plug away from the block it would arc to it at about a quarter of an inch awy or so. this showed me there was at least some signal coming from the ignition on each wire.
Click to expand...
 
Sounds to me like you need new plugs as well. I had exactly the same problem with my 550 which has points ignition. In the unleaded fuel that we get in Australia it has something added to it that causes the plugs to glaze over. With the problem I had the plugs would not spark when the body was grounded to the cylinders. When the body was moved away from the cylinders there would be a 1/4" spark from body of plug to cylinders and there would also be a 1/4" spark across the points of the plug. When I tested the plugs with a meter that measures in megohms the meter showed the plugs as being faulty. Needle hovered halfway across meter. These meters are fairly rare so just replace the plugs and don't run the bike for short periods of time in the garage as this also caused my plugs to glaze over (excessive idling).
 
Don I hope that"s all I need are new plugs. Mine came with the bike, so I don't know how old they are, they look new though. I'm itching for the shop to open tomorrow so I can get some new ones to try.

I have a book that covers up to '81 TSCC engines, and it provided an Igniter test. Take the blue and green wires with the ign. on and touch the + to the blue and - to the green while looking at the #' 3 and 4 plugs grounded to the block. On contact one plug should fire and taking the green off should make the other plug fire, well neither did. I'm worried about needing a new igniter. I hope they're not hard to find if I need one.

Good grief, I'm so close to being done, and it's gettin' time to ride with the weather getting good too. This sucks.
 
In my previous post I forgot to say that these plugs that glazed over so they didn't spark were new plugs. If they had 50 or 60 miles on them they would have been lucky. The points on the plug glaze over and act as an insulator and the spark if it is there at all is just crap. Reply back when you have changed the plugs and get your coils up to 12v and let us know what is happening. BTW that is the reason I have not updated to electronic ignition, at least with points, condensors and coils I have some chance of working out what the problems are.
Cheers
Don
 
Escobarclan said:
Don I hope that"s all I need are new plugs. Mine came with the bike, so I don't know how old they are, they look new though. I'm itching for the shop to open tomorrow so I can get some new ones to try.

I have a book that covers up to '81 TSCC engines, and it provided an Igniter test. Take the blue and green wires with the ign. on and touch the + to the blue and - to the green while looking at the #' 3 and 4 plugs grounded to the block. On contact one plug should fire and taking the green off should make the other plug fire, well neither did. I'm worried about needing a new igniter. I hope they're not hard to find if I need one.

Good grief, I'm so close to being done, and it's gettin' time to ride with the weather getting good too. This sucks.
Click to expand...

hi incase your igniter is gone,dont try and get urself a stock igniter,u can verywell opt for the dynaS.
cheers sanjiv
 
Ok Don, I'm gonna do the relay-coil thingy tomorrow and get the new plugs.

What's got me stumped is that 3 cyl's quit firing at once. 3 plugs going out at once seems like a stretch. I'm thinking something happened in the igniter.

Sanjiv (above) mentioned getting a dyna set-up instead. Will a dyna ignition kit replace the ignitor? What other components are replaced? Easy to install?
 
Dyna ignition replaces the ignitor. Dyna S version is the cheapest type, about $120 from Z1 Enterprises. If you feel like gambling, used ignitors typically sell on ebay for less. Check the connections in your harness first though, it's very common for some corrosion to set in with age.

Good luck.
 
thanks again Ness. I think I'll get a Dyna set up soon, I really don't want to deal with this problem again.

This forum ROCKS.
 
The Dyna replaces the crankshaft triggers/breaker plate, rotor and the ignitor box. All of those things get removed from the bike and trash canned.

Earl

Escobarclan said:
thanks again Ness. I think I'll get a Dyna set up soon, I really don't want to deal with this problem again.

This forum ROCKS.
Click to expand...
 
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