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NGK B8ES spark plug replacements: Autolite or Champion?

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Guest

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Has anyone tried Autolite 4054s or Champion N2C/N3Cs recently? they’re non-resistor plugs that are supposedly equivelent to the NGK B8ES and W24ES-U plugs. Any thoughts on them?

Matt
 
For as long as I've owned motorcycles (40+ years) the accepted wisdom has been to use the NGKs and not any substitute.
 
RichDesmond said:
For as long as I've owned motorcycles (40+ years) the accepted wisdom has been to use the NGKs and not any substitute.
Click to expand...

I’m the same way with NGK. Unfortunately, they don’t carry B8ES in any of the parts stores around here anymore. It doesn’t seem like I can get them from reputable online outlets either.
 
The engineering (and practical) side of me says "the plug is a couple of electrodes, separated by some ceramic, that can be threaded into a hole. As long as the heat range is correct, what difference is there in who makes it?"

The experienced side of me says "the last time I tried something besides NGK, the bike ran like crap."

Not sure whether I have any new ones available, but I have LOTS of slightly-used ones that can be cleaned and gapped.
 
Nessism said:
Someone here posted a similar ebay link to a seller with NOS ND W24ES plugs a while back. Myself, and I think, some others bought these and they are the real deal made in Japan ND's. They don't have a U groove, but that doesn't seem to bother NGK, since they don't have a groove either. Anyway, I'd get some of these before going Autolite or Champion.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/360780517093?epid=1630584072&hash=item540031cee5:g:ls0AAMXQL99Scryl
Click to expand...

thats a good deal! Thank you for the heads up Nessism!
 
phydeauxmutt said:
The engineering (and practical) side of me says "the plug is a couple of electrodes, separated by some ceramic, that can be threaded into a hole. As long as the heat range is correct, what difference is there in who makes it?"

The experienced side of me says "the last time I tried something besides NGK, the bike ran like crap."

Not sure whether I have any new ones available, but I have LOTS of slightly-used ones that can be cleaned and gapped.
Click to expand...

that’s the part that really irritates me. NGK really left us in a lurch by discontinuing export of B8ES plugs to the US without an acceptable substitute available. It would be less irritating if Denso W24ES-U plugs were available everywhere like the B8ES plugs were.
 
Best I remember, & It's been a long time since I checked, I think the Autolite & Champions use 1 heat range to cover appx. 4 heat ranges of the NGK's & ND's.
 
I was just thinking to use the BR8ES (resistor plugs) & remove the resistors from the plug caps. I just went & read read that old thread from the link above, & it kind'f said the same thing...I don't know but it just seems reasonable.
 
rphillips said:
I was just thinking to use the BR8ES (resistor plugs) & remove the resistors from the plug caps. I just went & read read that old thread from the link above, & it kind'f said the same thing...I don't know but it just seems reasonable.
Click to expand...

I considered doing the same but it seems some of the ngk caps don’t have removable resistors. Some of them are molded together and others have a slot so you can easily remove the resistor and spring with a flat blade screwdriver. The plug caps I use for cylinders #1 and #4 (VB05F) are not easily removable and the one I use for cylinders #2 and #3 can be opened with a screwdriver (XB05F).
 
I don't remember seeing them with resistors that weren't removable, NGK nor OEM. I guess they worked too good for too long, so finally they had to fix them. I'm no electrician so never knew why I needed "any" resistors, let alone three (resistor wires, resistor plugs, & resistor caps), on my bikes ign. system anyway.
 
As far as I know (which isn't much), you should only have a resistor present in 1 of the 3: Plugs, or caps, or Leads. Not 2, not 3. Somebody correct me.
 
Interesting, I'm pretty sure all GS's, even the earliest ones, had resistor wires & resistor plug caps, but not resistor plugs. Somewhere they changed as my "91" GSX1100G has resistors at all three places. Still don't know the reason for any, all I've ever heard was to reduce static on radios. It just seems any resistor would either weaken or slow the spark, it just doesn't seem like something needed. Should be easy question for someone, what year did the Suzuki bikes start using "Resistor" plugs?
 
Last edited:
Here's a quick and dirty comparison. Ignore the terrible sound sync, and cut to the last third or so to see the figures.
He seems to have overlooked that the plug cap is a resistive one, so hardly surprising he gets the results he does.
 
rphillips said:
Interesting, I'm pretty sure all GS's, even the earliest ones, had resistor wires & resistor plug caps, but not resistor plugs. Somewhere they changed as my "91" GSX1100G has resistors at all three places. Still don't know the reason for any, all I've ever heard was to reduce static on radios. It just seems any resistor would either weaken or slow the spark, it just doesn't seem like something needed. Should be easy question for someone, what year did the Suzuki bikes start using "Resistor" plugs?
Click to expand...

MINE has pure copper stranded. One assumes a natural resistance but there no indication of anything more
 
Grimly said:
Here's a quick and dirty comparison. Ignore the terrible sound sync, and cut to the last third or so to see the figures.
He seems to have overlooked that the plug cap is a resistive one, so hardly surprising he gets the results he does.
Click to expand...

One thing in the vid is evident in my bike and that is there is a sickly looking spark produced in spite of it the motor runs fine.
Im not sure what the obsession is with peak voltage the spark only needs to be hot enough to ignite atomised gasoline not a peat bog in a deluge.

from what I recall of the ads for performance ignitions is the need for more voltage for higher compression ratios.

Ive never suffered a perceivable performance deficit rom using a resistor plug with the stock caps
not in acceleration or fuel economy or plug life.
 
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Kind'f interesting video, we probably already knew the resistor plug would reduce the voltage but now we know how much, 12.8 kv vs 29.0 kv. Probably if used non resistor plug caps & non resistor wires the voltage may get to appx. 62kv. I wish he had tried the bike with the non resistor plugs to see if there was any difference...I'll try to make this short, yr. or two ago trying to get my GSX1100G started after its winter nap & no sign of starting, crank crank crank but nothing, not a sputter nor cough. Pulled a plug (OEM NGK JR9B resistor) & saw what "looked like" a very weak spark, new set of JR9B's & still no start & very weak "looking" spark. These JR9B plugs look exactly like the NGK D8EA (non resistors) used in my GS1100E & CB1100F. I stuck a D8EA in one plug cap & immediately saw a much brighter spark, put in 4 D8EA's & bike fired right up & is still starting & running perfectly today. Only change was from JR9B to D8EA plugs. The bike had been running fine, for yrs., with the JR9B's before this happened, I've never figured what changed but all good today with the D8EA's. ..Strange I know.
 
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