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Refreshing the head

Jethro

Jethro

Forum Sage
Past Site Supporter
TGSR Superstar
Charter Member
In a recent post someone mentioned that they were having excessive smoke on start up. My bike does the same, and while it does stop when hot, I do seem to burn a small amount of oil (maybe 1/4 qt. over 300 miles or so). I also recently had my exhaust off and had a look in the ports. Some of the valve stems had a lot of build up on them and look nasty. So I'm thinking of re-working the whole head, just because now is the time. I don't want to have to deal with this come riding season.

So the question here is what does it take to refresh the head on my bike? What can I do myself and what has to be done by a shop? Can I replace the valve seals myself (skill not a problem, I can figure most things out if I take my time). How much is this gonna cost me? I'm willing to buy any tools I need, in fact I'm getting a spring compressor tonight so I can practice on my 81 1100 head. I'm gonna start pulling it apart to fool around with and learn.

My bike has about 17k miles on it and runs great. Compression tested at a constant 180 for all 4 cyls just a few months ago.
 
you can do the valve seals after you pull the springs, they're like $4 apiece I think, I made a spring compressor out of an 8" c-clamp and a stamped steel EMT coupling, with a notch cut in it to remove the keepers... you can hand lap the valves and seats, but if the seats, guides or valves need replaced, a machine shop will be in order

site1225.jpg
 
well the spring compressor is key, you will need the one that looks like a C clamp as the kind that grab the spring from the sides wont work due to the springs sitting in recesses.
you will also need long, thin needle nose pliers for fishing out the valve keepers.
the one tip I can offer is to get a big truck rubber mudflap to set the head on, it will protect the head from maring, or scratches to the mating surface.

only having 17K miles on it, the valve guides should be ok
take a piece of cardboard and draw out the location of everything so you can place the assorted parts especialy the valves so you can get them back in the same place they came from.

you might also go ahead and pick up a valve laping tool and laping compound.
 
That spring compressor looks like it would do the job! I was going to go to Sears and see what they have, lhanscom posted a spring compressor they sell for $20 that he was able to make work, but if they don't have one, I'll do something like you did.

How does one go about getting the valve seals out? The shop manual shows a valve seal tool that just looks like a purpose made drift. Do I need one of these to pull the valve seals out? How about pressing them back in?
 
They can be pulled off with your fingers, they're just little rubber cups that go over the top of the valve guides, assembly is the same...fingers will work, oil them well before assembly,be careful when sliding the valve stem thru
 
So you think that if I just clean them up the valve stems will stay cleaner? Could my guides need replacing?
 
usually the seals are rotted and need replacing, you'll need to check end-play (wobble) on the valve stems to determine if the guides need replacing or not, you'll need a dial guage and some kind of fixture to hold the guage to check this...
 
the "glop" you will find in the intake valve stems is not oil, but detergent!
the detergent used in gas to keep injectors clean turns to a tar like substance when it hits the hot intake valve.
soaking them in a good carb cleaner will loosen it and make cleaning them much easyer.
 
The masochistic side of me that likes work-intensive preventive maintenance wants to service the head on my 81 GK. I could live without cleaning valves and seats and all, but I'd definitely like to check my valve clearances. And to relate this to this thread, once one does work on the valves and seats and all, the valve clearances will change.

So while checking clearances and servicing heads is great stuff, I don't do any of it because I am stumped on how to get shims at a reasonable price. What are you guys doing for shims?

And don't worry, I know - tappy valves are happy valves!
 
Up until recently my method of dealing with this type of thing has been sure fire. I just paid someone else to do it. But I am rethinking that in light of recent dealings so I will be watching this thread Jethro. Please be sure to let us know what works for you when you figure out what that is :)

I only have three payments left on my Turbo and when I get it, I am planing on doing all the work I can myself.
 
Hoomgar Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Up until recently my method of dealing with this type of thing has been sure fire. I just paid someone else to do it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, unfortunately Hoomie, I need my bike back within the decade. 8O

Sorry about the joke at your expense buddy! :D
 
Jethro said:
Hoomgar Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Up until recently my method of dealing with this type of thing has been sure fire. I just paid someone else to do it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, unfortunately Hoomie, I need my bike back within the decade. 8O

Sorry about the joke at your expense buddy! :D
Click to expand...


No no no, no problem at all. That only reinforces that you understood where I was coming from man :)
 
Jethro,
get the scuba gear out.

This sounds way too familair.
My S was smoking on start up and hard excelleration, like when I had to pee :D :D :D :D
So what started out as a top end job, new valve guides, springs, cut the seats and check the valves....... turned into a complete rebuild.
Once the head was off and checking cylinders, they were not round, more egg shaped from piston slap, re-bored and finding pistons, thank you Orient Express and then finding valves, again thanks to Orient Express.
And waiting and waiting....... :x
I fianlly had a running motor.
So once you open the can of worms, be ready with check book in hand.
Knowing you, you don't 1/2 ass anything this could be the start of something big.
Just being a devils advocate here
What started out as a $500-$600 top end.......$2500 later I had a fresh motor. Was it worth it? Of course, you've seen the bike run.
So before you dive, think about how far you want to go.
Not trying to talk you out of it, just be prepared.
 
Valve shims for $4.95 each at Cycle Recycle II:

http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com

Look in "motor parts".

They work great, but the ones I've gotten from CRCII tend to be about .02 mm thicker than the marked size. So if you want a 2.55 for example, it's likely to actually measure 2.57. Kinda like an OEM "x" shim (the OEM shims marked with an "x", like "2.60x" measure slightly large).

Not a big deal, but it's something to be aware of. And, of course, YMMV. The batch they send you may measure dead on.

It's always a good idea to order extras. If you think you need 2.55, you might want to order a 2.50 and maybe a 2.60 too. Sometimes feeler gauges aren't as precise as we'd like them to be. And sometimes you just don't feel right leaving the clearance right on the edge at .04 mm.
 
just finished mine

just finished mine

I just finished mine as i am in the process of a winter build on my gs750l
I have installed the Wisco 814 cc Big bore kit. The main reason i took the engine apart in the first place was my valve seals were bad,The number 4 plug would get oil on it just sitting in the head !!! I was shocked to see the amount of CRAP on the intake valve stems i am sure the motor will breath much beter after the cleanup, I changed my valve seals without using a spring compressor But i do not reccomend this,I just pushed down on top of the keeper with a pair of linesman pliers and fished out the keepers,I hand lapped the valves lightly even though i here suzuki says this is a no no, but ill take my chances on that one. install is easy like has been said before just oil up the seals and install by hand just make sure you have them on all the way as there is a ring that holds them onto the guide.
 
Yeah sorry to agree with the other guys but if you want to eliminate the smoke you're going to have to pull the head to replace the valve seals. Of course once you do that it would be silly not to replace the guides, as well as lap the valves. Of course since you have everything apart you might as well get a nice 3, 4 or 5 angle valve job done, etc, new pistons, etc..........My bike does the exact same thing. I'm going to leave it alone for a while and let things break a little more before I tear into anything. Spend your time riding (and enjoying) the bike and restore it only when everything is broken............. Too bad I can't follow my own advice!
 
After some fiddleing with the head off my 81, and taking out a few of the valves, I'm gonna settle for a simple valve clearance adjustment this year on the 83. The bike has killer compression, runs great and only has 16000 on the motor. Why mess with it.

The weather better break soon so I can ride, or I'm gonna get stupid with the tools !
 
daveo said:
usually the seals are rotted and need replacing, you'll need to check end-play (wobble) on the valve stems to determine if the guides need replacing or not, you'll need a dial guage and some kind of fixture to hold the guage to check this...
Click to expand...

Hold your finger over the valve guide hold and pull the valve out about 1/2 inch and let go. A good valve guide will pull the valve back in with vacuum, bad ones don't.
 
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