Guzziboys gsx400F of death

[GregT]

Okay - some basic questions as i've never yet seen inside one of them....but i've adapted a LOT of ignitions.
Is it triggered by a lump on the outside of the alternator rotor ?

If so, the Impulse ignition will probably swap right on, it may even use the same pickup.

Has it got a dedicated trigger/pickup setup on the end opposite the alternator ?

If so, something like a Kawasaki 400/600 will probably be an easy swap.

As far as Dyna not having something, i've adapted Dyna S pickups and rotor onto several motors which "we don't do one for that, sir..."
Because the advance curve is probably built into the box ? yes ? adapting a dyna 2000 wouldn't be hard if you have access to machining facilities to modify the rotor. This for the second option above - the dedicated end of the crank style. Then it's just remount the Dyna pickups on the OE backplate.

As an aside, the Impulse was a popular thing in the early years of F3 in NZ. You could buy an ignition box which lifted the limit to the sky...a friend of mine had one which ran a loud pipe and he ran it in the bike support races for the Lady Wigram car races. Pit full of international drivers and teams and the impulse screaming at around 15 grand past the pits got those guys attention....It lasted another season and a half....Rugged.

 

[guzziboy]

Okay - some basic questions as i've never yet seen inside one of them....but i've adapted a LOT of ignitions.
Is it triggered by a lump on the outside of the alternator rotor ?

If so, the Impulse ignition will probably swap right on, it may even use the same pickup.

Has it got a dedicated trigger/pickup setup on the end opposite the alternator ?

If so, something like a Kawasaki 400/600 will probably be an easy swap.

As far as Dyna not having something, i've adapted Dyna S pickups and rotor onto several motors which "we don't do one for that, sir..."
Because the advance curve is probably built into the box ? yes ? adapting a dyna 2000 wouldn't be hard if you have access to machining facilities to modify the rotor. This for the second option above - the dedicated end of the crank style. Then it's just remount the Dyna pickups on the OE backplate.

As an aside, the Impulse was a popular thing in the early years of F3 in NZ. You could buy an ignition box which lifted the limit to the sky...a friend of mine had one which ran a loud pipe and he ran it in the bike support races for the Lady Wigram car races. Pit full of international drivers and teams and the impulse screaming at around 15 grand past the pits got those guys attention....It lasted another season and a half....Rugged.

15000 revs Jesus h Christ mine sounds like a postie bike !


So I'm leaning towards the dyna2000 setup so I can throw away the cdi as well ?!

This is the signal generator , the dyna set ups look the most similar although I'm yet to receive a reply from them




All things aside mr T, thanks for your help! If you can help me make this run I'm coming over the ditch to buy you a beer! ( I met my mrs in Methven just quietly ;-)

 

[Guest]

You don't have a CDI you have a Ignitor, what does you ignitor box look like and what are the part # on it? post a picture please. Suzuki used alot of different ignitor's and alot of them are interchangeable between models. The pickups you posted a pic of look like a set I have from a 650 and I can see springs behind behind the plate so you still have a mechanical advance.

 

[Guest]

Wow that looks an awful lot like the 450's ignition setup too... what's the impedance measurement listed for the pickup coils? If it's 60 - 80ohms each side, then it's the same as the 450.

I do believe the plate is smaller than the 450's though...

Who did you speak to about the Dynatek? If it was Serco, yeah they're not the most helpful bunch I've discovered. I tried to chase a Dynojet kit for my carbs and they wanted $180 plus 8 weeks delay to get it from the US...

 

[guzziboy]

You don't have a CDI you have a Ignitor, what does you ignitor box look like and what are the part # on it? post a picture please. Suzuki used alot of different ignitor's and alot of them are interchangeable between models. The pickups you posted a pic of look like a set I have from a 650 and I can see springs behind behind the plate so you still have a mechanical advance.

Yep thanks for setting me straight it does have a mechanical advance, the igniter box is void of any marks it's got 6 wires and and earth coming out of it



It's got a six pin plug,



Thanks so much for your help!!!!!!!

 

[guzziboy]

Wow that looks an awful lot like the 450's ignition setup too... what's the impedance measurement listed for the pickup coils? If it's 60 - 80ohms each side, then it's the same as the 450.

I do believe the plate is smaller than the 450's though...

Who did you speak to about the Dynatek? If it was Serco, yeah they're not the most helpful bunch I've discovered. I tried to chase a Dynojet kit for my carbs and they wanted $180 plus 8 weeks delay to get it from the US...

Nail on the head there... Serco sucks mate!
I've got no idea what the measurement is I'm completely hopeless when it comes to electrical, I need to learn!!

 

[Guest]

The part number for the ignitor is most likely on the back of the box going by that pic. Pretty sure mine was there... helpful when you want a quick look for it

I'm pretty sure the wire colours on your signal generator are the same as my stock ones too...

To check the impedance, get a multi meter and set it to a resistance setting, probably 1K ohm to start with.

Measure with one probe in the green/white and one in the black/white.

Don't confuse the green with the green/yellow that is the oil pressure switch.

Measure again with one in the black/white and one in the brown.

 

[Guest]

post up a pic of the back of the plug so I can see the wire colors and location .It looks just like the 550 -650 ignitor box I have in the shop

 

[Guest]

The part number for the ignitor is most likely on the back of the box going by that pic. Pretty sure mine was there... helpful when you want a quick look for it

I'm pretty sure the wire colours on your signal generator are the same as my stock ones too...

To check the impedance, get a multi meter and set it to a resistance setting, probably 1K ohm to start with.

Measure with one probe in the green/white and one in the black/white.

Don't confuse the green with the green/yellow that is the oil pressure switch.

Measure again with one in the black/white and one in the brown.

If I recall correctly the GS250, GS450 and some GS550's all used that same igniter

 

[Guest]

If I recall correctly the GS250, GS450 and some GS550's all used that same igniter

Yup you recall correctly

 

[Guest]

Very much failure prone also as I recall

 

[Guest]

I actually adapted a ignitor from a GS750[80] to a 550 once and it worked fine . All I did was change the plug s from the 2 leads to the single 6 wire one, obviously tracing wires to their prospective locations. It was pretty easy as I remember doing it. With the mecanical advance you don't have to worrie about ignition curve just being able to make a spark.

 

[Guest]

They're definitely prone to failure, and why I have a Dynatek in mine now...

Kokar did a thread on making an ignitor which will replace the stock one too.

Adapting another would work, but in the case of the 250, 450, and a couple of 550's the signal generator coils are very low impedance (60 - 80ohms), whereas the others are typically something like 300 - 400ohms I think from memory, so the signal generator coils need to be swapped out as well.

 

[Guest]

The one I did I used the genorator coils that were on the bike and it still worked. We ran the bike for a couple years that way and never had a problem.

 

[Guest]

Nice! What model was that one? Good to know for future reference!

 

[guzziboy]

I will take a photo of the wiring in the daylight tomorrow morning!
I've already got a set of dynatek 3 ohm coils ready to go

 

[Guest]

Nice! What model was that one? Good to know for future reference!

The igniter was off a 80 750E, I believe the same was used on the 80-81, 750's, 850's and 1000's also the 80-81 1100's it was a very common igniter, but not built water tight and are prone to cold solder joints in side, I have repaired a few with that problem.

 

[GregT]

Given that it's mechanical advance, you can adapt any Suzuki Dyna S onto it. Just remount the Dyna pickups onto the OE backplate.

I'm about 20 minutes from Methven...and got called in to advise when a couple of locals wanted a street circuit there, eased the way for approval for them. I assume you're a skiier.

 

[Big T]

Got that right! Although they were apparently called a katana for America not in oz? Think we are the chosen ones

Nope, here in the States, we got a completeley different bike, the Bandit 400

Trellis frame, minimal bodywork

 

[Guest]

Nope, here in the States, we got a completeley different bike, the Bandit 400

Trellis frame, minimal bodywork

But that wasn't until the early ninties. His bike is a 81-82, also they got the GSXR400's which we didn't