Possible damaged R/R and/or stator

[roeme]

(...)
But am I taking a huge risk by using the bike for a few days before I change it?

I will be using it for perhaps 50, maybe 70 km/day.
How big is the risk that I will damage the stator during the next few days?

(...)

Also, I would like to ask, any of you who knows if I need any other bolts or modifications for the SH775 regulator? Or is everything just bolt on?

If you have verified your current R/R to be in good order, then you might do it, since you understand the risk. However, unless you do not know how to test diodes, and understand the R/R's internal schematic, you only have to blame yourself if you get stranded, and have to order a new stator, and redo the thing.

Since you just recently got a multimeter of your own, I advise against doing so.

There are accounts of our GS' electricals (i.e. R/R, stator) working well for a long time, and of failing early. What is certain however, that they will fail.

Wether you are willing to take this gamble, that you have to decide by yourself, not some people on the intertubes.

As an example, one of my GS'es was running, but not charging very well. After some investigation, I found the Regulator shot, and the Rectifier barely hanging on. But the bike would run. My gamble was to drive to the second bike, and transplant it's healthy R/R - possibly ending up on the side of the road somewhere -, or to get over there and back with public transport or a friends' car. Needless to say, I did not gamble.

The SH775 is simple to connect, no electrical modifications necessary. Mechanically, I have no idea re. your bike, but I don't know of anyone having major problems. It sometimes even goes into the old R/R's place.

 

[cowboyup3371]

I personally park the bike when I know I have a major repair like that to make. As far as bolts or other modifications, I'm not positive on the 850 but I used the same R/R slot with mine and bolt size though they might be a bit longer.

 

[noratx]

Thank you Cowboy.
I would park my bike too, if I could.. unfortunately, my bike is what I use to get to work with during season.
During winter I have other means of transportation which I can't use during summer seasons unfortunately.

Fortunately, I think I will be home early enough to take care of the R/R swap tomorrow.
So far, I am happy to see that my battery is charging and that my headlight are showing as much light as it should be showing

 

[noratx]

I am sorry roeme, i did not see your post, so never replied to it.

I did gamble and took my chances, and seems miss fortune were smiling at me. Everything seems fine.

I started replacing the r/r a few hour ago, and got done just recently.
Everything seems to be working perfectly now.
The stator tests checked out with flying colors after I was done.

Only thing left to do is converting to a single point ground, but that will be done during the winter when I will anyway disconnect the entire loom and go through it properly.

As it is now, I have to my knowledge 3 ground points.
The battery terminal grount which is grounded to the frame below the battery compartment.
The r/r ground and the ground for lightbulbs are grounded to the same place at ine of the barretycompartment bolts, and then an unknown ground wire coming from the loom, connecting just to the right of the fusebox with a small philips screw.

Not sure if there are any further grounds coming from the loom.
Some PO have been constructive at some point(s) and rewired some stuff, leaving the loom slightly damaged at some points and taped it up.
Since the bike is and have been working so far, I will just continue riding this summer with no more than absolutely necessary fixing.

The big project for the winter is to create a new loom, put a new seat cover on, and possibly give it a new coat of paint since some ass 3 weeks ago jad kicked my bike to the ground, which gave the fairings some damage. :/

 

[posplayr]

If you have not shut down operations till winter. I would do the Quick Test in my signature. I 'm not exactly sure what you mean by three point ground because I don't know where physically those three points are. However you should probably at least run a wire direct from the r/r ground to the battery negative terminal. In addition I would use an electronic contact cleaner to spray out the fusebox. This is because I assume you don't have the time to actually clean it.

 

[noratx]

posplayr: I think I described the physical location of those three points?
(except for where the battery negaive wire is connected).
The r/r and lightbulb grounds are connected to the battery compartments bolt, which is mounted in the frame.

The second ground point, which is a ground wire that I dont know what it is for, is connected to the left of the busebox, mounted at the battery compartment.

And the third groundpoint, being the battery negative wire.
I dont remember if this is mounted to the enging or straight to the frame, but its one of those two options.

May I please ask you, I k ow you have described this before, but I am on my cellphone right now and searching fro it gives me a headache... Where is the ideal place to put the single groundpoint? Collect all grounds (except battery negative wire) and route them directly to the negative battery terminal?
Or would you suggest any other place to put all grounds at?

For some reason, I did not think I should have put theground wire from the r/r to the battery negative terminal, but I trust your judgement and will do that bit later when the rain is gone. wont take me many minutes anyway.

Regarding the fusebox, I cleaned it out when I first did the stator test by using some electronics cleaner and a toothbrush. Time to give it a good and proper clean? As silly as it sounds, no, unfortunately I dont have that time.
Due to my family situation, I would not be finnished even with a weekend on my hands.
Even though I didnt mention it, that will be done during the winter as well.
As will cleaning out and refurbish any contacts found on the bike be done too.

(To be honest, I have thought about if I shouldnt even invest in your solid state power box as well. I have read quite a bit about it, and since I will anyway need to connect some electric mods to it later on, I think it could be a good investment)

When I said that the stator checked out with flying colors, I should have been more specific, sorry.
Not only did I ceck the stator, but the charging quicktest as well. It all checked out good and I feel confident that I now have a healthy charging system.

 

[posplayr]

Sorry for any confusion about the SPG but it literally does not matter where the SPG is as long as it is on a short wire close to the R/R(-). I describe SPG in various places as to the theory. The specific instructions are in GS Charging health.

I'm loath to repeat here what has been repeated so often and it is clear you have either not read or recall reading GS Charging health.the diagram is pretty clear.

As to a good cleaning of the fusebox, I assume you have a glass bulb type fuse box vs the more modern spade type. The older style uses crimps which have corrosion. That can generate heat and melt the box. As a matter of course I would alway recommend flowing solder into those crimps but solder will not flow into that which is dirty and corroded.

finally, while I will have to take your word on your being confident about the charging , the fact you have not mentioned one voltage gives me little confidence other than perhaps your lights are brighter and what that implies. If you want to post the 6 voltages from the quick test I could give you an assessment.

 

[noratx]

I am quite good at making people confused (and confusing myself), so don't apologize please

I have indeed read the charging health article, several times actually.

Stator tests:
At 5k rpm, I am reading ~80 VAC.
Can't remember at all what it was at idle speed, as I honestly was only looking for the 80 VAC reading.

R/R tests:

1.Fully charged battery and key off, Above 12.5 volts. Possibly 12.6 or 12.7 (was looking for more than 12.5 but less than 13 volts).
2. Key on, lights on left for ~10 seconds without any cranking, still above 12 volts but less than 12.5.
3. Bike idling - Somewhere between 13 volts flat
4. Bike at 2500 RPM - 13.7
5. Bike at 5k RPM - 14.2 (I remember this number clearly thoug, simply because the moment I checked the value, by beloved NY starbucks coffee cup fell off and got smashed ).
6. To be honest, I don't remember more than it was higher than 12.5. Could have been the same as reading #1, or could have been just slightly over.. I had to quickly pick everything up and go inside, as it just started to rain.

So, I am confident that my charging system is ok, atthe very least, it is MUCH better than what it was before I changed the stator and R/R

Regarding the fusebox, no, I don't have glass fuses, I have the spade fuses.

 

[posplayr]

The quick test is saying as you concluded. That you are charging well. The voltages to me are much more descriptive than any superlatives. I was really looking for evidence of fold back in the 2500 vs5000 rpm numbers. 5000 higher than 2500 means the connections are pretty good where the voltage drops are less than 0.25v total. The spade type fuse box has put you ahead of the game even with just a simple spray of contact cleaner.

if you achieved this without a wire running directly between the r/r(-) and battery (-) I would suggest you were much more diligent than most but it is still a frail solution. Regardless you probably can last out the summer especially since you have the sh-775.realize that a lot of the warning are due to what happens to shunt r/r s with dirty connections which is much worse than series r/r.

given poor connections the shunt will overheat shorting out the stator whereas the series will just open up.

btw. The revised phase B tests located on this site now include both leg to leg tests and the better test to include of leg to ground. So there is nothing to suggest that you may not have some stator damage unless you have exhausted those tests. Using an ohm meter is essentially meaningless.

 

[posplayr]

BTW I'm not producing the SSPB any more due to lack on market.

 

[noratx]

Posplayr: Thank you very much for your conclusion.
No matter what though, new readings will be carried out when I am working on the loom during the winter (oh, well, when I have finnished it)

Too bad you dont produce the sspb anymore.
May I ask you then though, I got 2 switched usb chargers to connect later on.I would prefer those not to hook them directly to the battery. The ideal is somehwere after ignition, or possibly at parking, so as not to drain the battery when key is off and something is left in the charger (or even worse, a short).

Would you be able to hint me on which wire to look at to put them on?

 

[posplayr]

Posplayr: Thank you very much for your conclusion.
No matter what though, new readings will be carried out when I am working on the loom during the winter (oh, well, when I have finnished it)

Too bad you dont produce the sspb anymore.
May I ask you then though, I got 2 switched usb chargers to connect later on.I would prefer those not to hook them directly to the battery. The ideal is somehwere after ignition, or possibly at parking, so as not to drain the battery when key is off and something is left in the charger (or even worse, a short).

Would you be able to hint me on which wire to look at to put them on?

You are saying you want them double switched (i.e. a second switch beyond the built in Switches). If you don't use the ignition switch as the second switch you want to add another switch?

for low power USB chargers, you have access to the ORANGE return from the ignition switch right at the front of the bike all the way back to the back where the fuse box is. You have that as a switched power to source power to your switched USB devices(therefore double switched).

They are only fused through the 15 amp main, but you don't have to add another switch and if you are really concerned add another inline fuse downstream(of this tap) that is <5 amps for both.

 

[noratx]

Hmm... I think there are some confusion again
I assume, that by switched, you mean that the ignition is switched on, right?

When I say switched, I am referring to what the label on the charger says "Switched usb chargers" (not the exact phraze, but I think the manufacturer means that the little plastic box (not possible to open up without damaging the casing) on the cable is a switched (or switching?) psu.) I can take a picture of it later if needed/if you want.
This is just a guess now, but I have a feeling that if the chargers were not switched (as the manufacturer says they are) it would just be two simple wires straight from the USB connector.

So do I want them double switched, as in having a fuse or some kind of power switch between the ignition and the charger? Nope, I would only forget to switch them on or off, leaving me at the roadside cursing over why the heck I didnt switch them on before going now that the GPS died...

As for low power... Is 5 volts at 2.1 amps low power?

 

[posplayr]

"switcher" and being "switched" have two entirely different connotations. Switcher means "PWM modulated" power supply; switched is literal(i.e. by a mechanical switch). So switch or even switched means any mechanical switch. At least in engineering circles this would be true

This would be a switched USB charger even if it has a "switcher" DC-DC convertor chip inside of it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E8CZAWY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The USB I/F can only supply +5V with some pretty tight tolerance (+/-200mv for example) and since power on your bike is +12V there has to be a down conversion. 7 to 9V of drop is going to cause that device to get hot if it were a linear device so unless this is a very very cheap device, it will have a "switcher" DC to DC conversion chip to accomplish generation of the +5V at the output.

Hook it up as I suggested.

P=IV= 5x2.1= 10Watts

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to disappear.

 

[noratx]

Ahh, thank you for clarifying this to me
It didnt say it was a switched revive on the label as I thought, it was proba ly in the little google translated piece of paper I hot with them.

Cheap device? Even though they were bought in sweden, they probably didnt cost more than a few bucks for the store to buy, and they probably make 100% profit, considering I bought them for a whopping ~14 bucks, and found the exact same on aliexpress for 4.95
Yes, cheap china crap for sure

I will go with your suggestion of the orange wire.
Thank you for your help

 

[posplayr]

Cheap is like $1. I have bought stuff on eBay from China where it is cheaper to buy and strip the parts than try and buy outright. A plastic box with two wires is beyond cheap .

i have a Rs485 to USB converter I bought probably for $5 but turns out it had a grey market FTDI USB chip on it. I can buy the chip from Digikey that is legitimate for $4.5 a piece. The Chinese probably have 75% markup to get to $5 as I think I can find these same things under $3.
Note these are fill USB communications devices that if real can communicate at Close to 1 mbit per sec. They also have to have the same type of power supply your charger has to have.

in real costs of two wires vs this minimum DC to DC switcher is way less than $1