Headlight Questions

[Billy Ricks]

thanks for the info.

On a seperate note has anyone converted there headlight to HID?

They draw way too much power for the GS system.

[tomcat24551]

wouldn't that be a 275 watt or 280 watt alternator.
75-80 watt output is way to low.

You're right. I should have been talking about 75 and 80 volts, not watts! It must have been late when I was looking at the BassCliff's pdf manual for those numbers.

On pg 16 of his scanned manual, the '79 850 is described as having "Alternator no-load data" of "more than 75 volts (AC) at 5000 RPM".

On pg 282 the '80 850 is described as having "Generator no-load voltage" of "more than 80 volts (AC) at 5000 RPM".

So, how do you figure watts from these numbers?

I apologize for the confusion. I will go back and edit my original post.

Sorry,

Tomcat

[Steve]

... has anyone converted there headlight to HID?

They draw way too much power for the GS system.

Actually, they draw less power, once they are warmed up.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

Burner and ballast operation


HID headlamp bulbs do not run on low-voltage DC current, so they require a ballast with either an internal or external ignitor. The ignitor is integrated into the bulb in D1 and D3 systems, and is either a separate unit or integral with the electronic ballast in D2 and D4 systems. The ballast controls the current to the bulb. The ignition and ballast operation proceeds in three stages:

1. Ignition: a high voltage pulse is used to produce a spark — in a manner similar to a spark plug – which ionizes the Xenon gas, creating a conducting tunnel between the tungsten electrodes. In this tunnel, the electrical resistance is reduced and current flows between the electrodes.
2. Initial phase: the bulb is driven with controlled overload. Because the arc is operated at high power, the temperature in the capsule rises quickly. The metallic salts vapourise, and the arc is intensified and made spectrally more complete. The resistance between the electrodes also falls; the electronic ballast control gear registers this and automatically switches to continuous operation.
3. Continuous operation: all metal salts are in the vapour phase, the arc has attained its stable shape, and the luminous efficacy has attained its nominal value. The ballast now supplies stable electrical power so the arc will not flicker.

Stable operating voltage is 85 voltsAC in D1 and D2 systems, 42 volts AC in D3 and D4 systems. The frequency of the square-wave alternating current is typically 400 hertz or higher.

Burner types

HID headlamp burners produce between 2,800 and 3,500 lumens from between 35 and 38 watts of electrical power, while halogen filament headlamp bulbs produce between 700 and 2,100 lumens from between 40 and 72 watts at 12.8 V [13][14][15].

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[peterjf50]

yeah, thats what I was thinking, looked at a lot of systems on e-bay and they all say use less power and such. Might be worth a shot I guess, I cant think of anything that could get hurt, can you guys?

[Steve]

I cant think of anything that could get hurt, can you guys?

YES.

Many of the systems (if they are true HID, not the 'looks like HID' bulbs), especially the ones you see on eBay, are poorly made. Most of the ones that you find will be listed as 'conversion' systems to convert your standard lights to HID. This won't work.

HID lights work by producing an electric arc across two electrodes. A properly-designed reflector will reflect the light produced by that arc and send it in the proper direction. This arc is horizontal and lateral. That is, the electrodes are side-by-side, across the light.

The bulbs we use now have filaments that glow very brightly when sufficient electricty is sent through them. They also have reflectors that send light out in the desired direction.

Many of the current bulbs, including the H4 bulbs that our bikes use, have filaments that are also horizontal, but in-line. That is, they are arranged front-to-back. Simply sticking a 'conversion' HID bulb in there will certainly produce a lot of light, but there is no way that the arc will be in the proper location to match where the filaments were, so the light will not be properly placed on the road. Worse yet, it might not be properly controlled to keep it out of the eyes of oncoming drivers.

Another factor to consider: You get low-and high-beam lights by using two filaments inside the same bulb. The low-beam filament has shielding to control the light to keep it out of other drivers' eyes, the high-beam filament is placed outside the shield to be able to hit the entire reflector. Most HID lights, especially the cheap ones available as conversions, do not have this feature. I have seen claims that "it's so good on low beam that you don't need a high beam" and other such garbage. I have probably driven more night-time miles than most people and can not understand how that can be possible. One setting on your headlight is not enough. TWO settings on your headlights is not enough. That is why I always have specialized lighting on my vehicles to make up for the shortcomings of the stock lights.

True HID lights are also not really small. Chances are that they will not fit in the cramped quarters of your headlight bucket. The only way to properly convert to HID lighting is to replace the entire assembly. One problem with that is that none of them have a proper enclosure for a bike.

And, ... don't even get me started on the 'looks like HID' bulbs. Most of them simply tint the glass to make it look blue like HID. Reducing your light output to only blue REALLY compromises your ability to see down the road. I tried a set of 'Ultra White' Xenon bulbs, and even got the 80/100 watt model for my van. I put them in and went for a drive. Twenty minutes later, I was home, putting my stock 55/60 watt bulbs back in so I could see. The light from the 'Ultra White' bulbs was so blue, none of the greens and yellows that are so prevalent in the world were being reflected back to me, so I could not see what was out there.

Many of the bulbs that you see on the shelf at Auto Zone and other places have a light blue tint. Same idea, different degree of reduction. Your best bet will be a CLEAR bulb. You can see more details in this paper by Daniel Stern Lighting: Bulb Articles

So, to answer your question (finally ), what can get hurt? Your wallet, when you realize you have wasted your money.

Still have questions?

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[rustybronco]

You're right. I should have been talking about 75 and 80 volts, not watts!

On pg 16 of his scanned manual, the '79 850 is described as having "Alternator no-load data" of "more than 75 volts (AC) at 5000 RPM".

On pg 282 the '80 850 is described as having "Generator no-load voltage" of "more than 80 volts (AC) at 5000 RPM".

So, how do you figure watts from these numbers?

Tomcat

You can't figure the wattage output from just the voltage you need to know the amperage output also.