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    If you need to drop compression one way would be to machine a recess in the piston crown. You'd leave about a 6mm wide ledge around the edge to make the squish work but gain chamber volume with the recess.
    It's not uncommon to use a recess like this and looking at the depth of your valve pockets it should be quite safe.
    The alternative of adding volume to the head space is actually quite difficult with the 4v heads - they're a very good shape to start with.
    Remember what I said early on in this build...these heads have a rep for cracking...so don't overdo the compression.

    Following you through this is good mental exercise for me as i'm doing race motors most of the time - but currently mainly 2V and 2 strokes....

    Comment


      Originally posted by ArttuH View Post
      Well, over 2mm is way too large piston to head clearance, IMO. It will ruin the squish band and hurt performance. I would aim to 1.0-1.5mm range. On the other hand over 12:1 is quite high compression ratio for an air cooled street engine. It may work or it may cause detonation. I don't have much experience on high compression N/A engines so I can't say for sure. So ideal solution would be to adjust piston to head clearance to 1.0-1.5mm and then machine piston tops or combustion chambers to get suitable compression ratio, maybe something like 11.5:1.
      Got it I was going for 2mm but 1.5 is possible.

      Originally posted by 7981GS View Post
      I have pushed these GS's to their limit on the street and a couple of my bikes are at 10.7:1 comp ratio which I think is right at the ragged edge for these air-cooled engines.
      They don't knock or ping unless stuck behind a Hardly-Ableson parade when it is over 90 degrees out.
      All future creations will be limited to 10.5:1.

      So you have no problem finding 100 octane gas there?
      How much do you have to pay for it?

      Eric
      Hardly-Ableson parade

      Good to know
      I work at an airport 100LL av gas It would be possible at 2.50 a liter but I'd rather not go that way.Max at the pump here is 92.

      Originally posted by platinum2 View Post
      they ran over 12:1 in racing with out problems,it will just need tuned properly, new bikes are 14:1,timing and jetting ,need to be altered ,check into old school racing there should be a lot of useful info to work with
      but high compression means more strain on cranks,and rods ect... so good luck with crappy designed metals,a thick head gasket,or some head chamber relief work would bump it down to a smoother 11:75:1 maybe i dont think 12:1 will be bad if the crank is good
      Never herd of "old school racing" But I'm searching for it now.
      The bottom end is good and well within plastigauge tolerances.
      I could retard to timing to make it a little easier on it.


      Originally posted by GregT View Post
      If you need to drop compression one way would be to machine a recess in the piston crown. You'd leave about a 6mm wide ledge around the edge to make the squish work but gain chamber volume with the recess.
      It's not uncommon to use a recess like this and looking at the depth of your valve pockets it should be quite safe.
      The alternative of adding volume to the head space is actually quite difficult with the 4v heads - they're a very good shape to start with.
      Remember what I said early on in this build...these heads have a rep for cracking...so don't overdo the compression.

      Following you through this is good mental exercise for me as i'm doing race motors most of the time - but currently mainly 2V and 2 strokes....
      Good to know its racking more than one brain

      According to the engine calculator

      78mm bore
      56.6mm stroke
      17cc ( head + valve recesses)
      1mm squish

      makes it 13.4:1

      I need another 6cc's to get down to 10.5:1

      1.5mm squish
      makes it 12.2:1

      I need another 4cc's to get to 10.5:1

      So cutting a recess in the piston you say? hmm,, That's possible and would be better over all.

      I measured the amount of piston top I have to play with and it is 4.32mm in the center at the thinnest spot and gets thicker as it spreads out.

      I could dish it out 67mm.

      1.7mm dish depth would make 6cc's and that's what I need with a 1.5mm squish.

      Again with the engine calculator

      1mm squish calculations
      78mm
      56.6mm
      15cc head only
      4cc piston dish 1.1mm dish depth.
      comp ratio is 12.4:1

      Need more dish

      6cc piston dish 1.7mm dish depth.
      comp ratio is 11.5:1

      1.5mm squish calcs

      78mm
      56.6mm
      15cc head
      4cc piston dish 1.1mm dish depth.
      comp ratio is 11.1:1

      more dish. Need 5-6cc's

      6cc dish 1.7mm depth
      comp ratio 10.5:1


      5cc dish 1.4mm depth
      comp ratio 10.7:1
      Last edited by Mekanix; 04-05-2012, 12:24 AM.
      Stephen.
      1981 GSX540L "Frankintwin"
      1989 GS500E Resto-mod .

      400 mod thread
      Photo's 1

      Photos 2

      Gs500 build thread
      GS twin wiki

      Comment


        You can mix one gallon of Avgas to five gallons of 91 octane to get 95 octane real gas.
        Of course that would be illegal as there is no "Road use tax" on it.
        We have a VP Racing gas joint here that sells 100 octane unleaded for road use that we
        had to put into the tank after we left the H-D parade. Of course it is over $8.50 per gallon.
        I think that we saved the engine that day.

        Eric
        Last edited by Guest; 04-05-2012, 12:21 AM.

        Comment


          I am running 11-1 rated pistons, cold dry compression of 180+ psi. Best gas at the pump here is 94 octane, the timing is set to stock advance. Havent had any pinging problems. Pistons had zero deck height head gasket .043" Running it on the rich side.
          The metric hurts my brain.

          Comment


            Originally posted by gearhead13 View Post
            I am running 11-1 rated pistons, cold dry compression of 180+ psi. Best gas at the pump here is 94 octane, the timing is set to stock advance. Havent had any pinging problems. Pistons had zero deck height head gasket .043" Running it on the rich side.
            The metric hurts my brain.
            We can only get 91 octane P*ss-water at our pumps and 10.7:1 just barely makes do with that.
            It won't be long before they make us run that 90 octane crap that is the highest octane available in California.
            Then, I will HAVE to mix gas for two of my bikes.
            I also have an 11.5:1 car that must have the 100/91 mix or it will do nothing but knock!

            Eric

            Comment


              Called cometic today for gasket prices

              The base gasket will have to be 1.60mm (0.063)

              putting the piston in the hole by 0.25mm (0.010)

              That was the closest option to the 1.45mm (0.057) I could get in coper.

              The head gasket now needs to be 0.25mm (0.010) smaller to get the 1.5mm squish.

              That makes it a 1.27mm (0.050)

              I called JE pistons to see if its ok to dish out the center of the piston the 1.7mm.(0.067)

              Didn't get a call back.
              Last edited by Mekanix; 04-06-2012, 02:14 AM.
              Stephen.
              1981 GSX540L "Frankintwin"
              1989 GS500E Resto-mod .

              400 mod thread
              Photo's 1

              Photos 2

              Gs500 build thread
              GS twin wiki

              Comment


                Should have bought turbo pistons. They come already dished.

                Comment


                  Didn't have much of a choice for a 78mm piston. There were two on the shelf and I didn't have to buy a whole kit so I saved some money there. Everything else was much higher compression than these.
                  Stephen.
                  1981 GSX540L "Frankintwin"
                  1989 GS500E Resto-mod .

                  400 mod thread
                  Photo's 1

                  Photos 2

                  Gs500 build thread
                  GS twin wiki

                  Comment


                    If you do need to gain more chamber volume, the side walls could be laid back to match the bore size or the diameter of the piston dish.
                    Don't touch the front or rear squish areas.

                    Comment


                      You can also enlarge/make deeper the valve reliefs to drop a cc or two.
                      Especially if you are installing over-sized valves anyway.
                      I have had them cut .040 deeper with no problems. You can probably go deeper safely.

                      Eric

                      Comment











                        This how much area the piston will take up. There is room on the sides to loose a few cc's

                        Its 15cc's stock
                        I need to gain at least 6cc's

                        There is already 2cc's in the valve reliefs.
                        I need another 4cc's at least,

                        Do you think I could get that from the sides ?

                        With the deck height back to 1.25mm(0.050) I need to get at least 21cc's to get below 11:1





                        Originally posted by 7981GS View Post
                        You can also enlarge/make deeper the valve reliefs to drop a cc or two.
                        Especially if you are installing over-sized valves anyway.
                        I have had them cut .040 deeper with no problems. You can probably go deeper safely.

                        Eric
                        Never thought of that How much meat is in the valve seats ?
                        Since these heads have a habit of cracking what effect would recessing the valves in the seats have?
                        Last edited by Mekanix; 04-06-2012, 01:00 PM.
                        Stephen.
                        1981 GSX540L "Frankintwin"
                        1989 GS500E Resto-mod .

                        400 mod thread
                        Photo's 1

                        Photos 2

                        Gs500 build thread
                        GS twin wiki

                        Comment


                          You could connect the valve reliefs in the pistons. Make one long pocket for the intake and one long pocket for the exhaust.

                          Comment


                            In your case, you could un-shroud those valve pockets quite a bit also and increase flow.

                            Eric

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by 7981GS View Post
                              In your case, you could un-shroud those valve pockets quite a bit also and increase flow.

                              Eric

                              Do you think there is that much room ?






                              Originally posted by TeamDar View Post
                              You could connect the valve reliefs in the pistons. Make one long pocket for the intake and one long pocket for the exhaust.
                              I was thinking of just making a 67mm cylinder in the middle of the piston 1mm deep.
                              But now looking at the piston and valve reliefs and squish bands I would like to keep the triangles between the valve reliefs and just take out the material in the middle.
                              Last edited by Mekanix; 04-06-2012, 01:17 PM.
                              Stephen.
                              1981 GSX540L "Frankintwin"
                              1989 GS500E Resto-mod .

                              400 mod thread
                              Photo's 1

                              Photos 2

                              Gs500 build thread
                              GS twin wiki

                              Comment


                                Yes there is room. Look at where your valves are at the flat of your combustion chambers.

                                These, cannot be opened up any more as there is simply no room with these custom-made over-sized valves and pistons...








                                Those are for a 13.5:1 compression engine.

                                No, it will not run on 87 octane pump gas. LOL!!!


                                Eric

                                Comment

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